DarthSlack

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I believe this quote from none other than Ron Desantis is appropriate here:

DeSantis told podcaster Dave Rubin that Florida has "a policy that if you’re driving on one of those streets and a mob comes and surrounds your vehicle and threatens you, you have a right to flee for your safety. And so if you drive off and you hit one of these people, that’s their fault for impinging on you. You don’t have to sit there and just be a sitting duck and let the mob grab you out of your car and drag you through the streets."
 
FFS, as often happens with journalists they are giving far too much credence to an obviously bullshit position in order to offer the appearance of "balance".

Even if we give the officer a huge, huge benefit of the doubt and assume he did in fact fear for his life in that moment, that doesn't make the action of killing that woman in any way, shape, or fashion reasonable. How was shooting her going to prevent him getting run over? Her death was quite obviously not going to make the car come to a sudden, immediate, stop, and as we can see it didn't. It just resulted in the car being out of control, putting others in the vicinity at risk.
 

poochyena

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FFS, as often happens with journalists they are giving far too much credence to an obviously bullshit position in order to offer the appearance of "balance".

Even if we give the officer a huge, huge benefit of the doubt and assume he did in fact fear for his life in that moment, that doesn't make the action of killing that woman in any way, shape, or fashion reasonable. How was shooting her going to prevent him getting run over? Her death was quite obviously not going to make the car come to a sudden, immediate, stop, and as we can see it didn't. It just resulted in the car being out of control, putting others in the vicinity at risk.
I get it, but news orgs have been sued many times for getting stuff wrong, even when there is video. Its not so much about being fair, its more about not getting sued. They don't really have much to gain by making positive assertions.
 

BigVince

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There is apparently a new video out there that Vance and others are circulating. I can't bring myself to watch any of them, but I'll be curious for comments here as the timing seems very suspect and I would immediately believe they are using a doctored video to try and provide some coverage.
I've seen the video and linked it in the current events thread. It doesn't actually show the shooting and is video from one of the ICE officers. It looks to me to be legit. What i cant believe is that Vance et al think releasing that video works in their favor. it most certainly does not
 

QtDevSvr

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He lost me near the beginning when he stated she was "blocking the road", with the video freezed showing her only blocking half the road, with a clear vehicle path available in front of her. (And the full video showed multiple vehicles taking that path to leave the scene, prior to the shooting.) He's not the only listen-to-me-I'm-being-neutral commenter to do this. What is wrong with people? If you want to be a conduit for facts, at least get the most basic and obvious ones right. If a vehicle is blocking part of a road, or just one lane, with an obvious vehicular path around, then don't say "blocking the road". Say "blocking a lane", or "part of the road", or "impeding but not totally preventing through traffic".
 

Starbuck79

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He lost me near the beginning when he stated she was "blocking the road", with the video freezed showing her only blocking half the road, with a clear vehicle path available in front of her. (And the full video showed multiple vehicles taking that path to leave the scene, prior to the shooting.) He's not the only listen-to-me-I'm-being-neutral commenter to do this. What is wrong with people? If you want to be a conduit for facts, at least get the most basic and obvious ones right. If a vehicle is blocking part of a road, or just one lane, with an obvious vehicular path around, then don't say "blocking the road". Say "blocking a lane", or "part of the road", or "impeding but not totally preventing through traffic".
She was not "blocking the road" she was trying to pull into the other lane to leave. She waved a car next to her to drive away first, then she starts to drive away and the Truck speeds in. She tries to wave for them to go but they jump out and start screaming at her. She tries t o back up to avoid hitting them, and then panics and tries to drive away and is Shot.

The Agents put themselves in unnecessary danger and she paid the price.
 
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Nvoid82

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735
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I get it, but news orgs have been sued many times for getting stuff wrong, even when there is video. Its not so much about being fair, its more about not getting sued. They don't really have much to gain by making positive assertions.

If they refuse to tell the honest truth for fear of being sued they are cowards and should find a new line of work.
 

Sajuuk

Ars Legatus Legionis
13,280
I've seen the video and linked it in the current events thread. It doesn't actually show the shooting and is video from one of the ICE officers. It looks to me to be legit. What i cant believe is that Vance et al think releasing that video works in their favor. it most certainly does not
Their entire brand is being hyper-masculine and hyper-violent, and applying said violence to the out group. They believe it works in their favor because it absolutely works with their base.

No one else is American in their eyes, and that should be frustratingly clear by now.
 

Thank You and Best of Luck!

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Someone should compile video of all the right wingers in previous years saying "If a group of people surround your vehicle and you are in fear of your life, you should gun it and drive into anyone in front of your car"
This entirely misses the point. From their perspective there’s no hypocrisy here and it doesn’t matter because the actual thesis is to be able to exert power/force AND get away with it. That’s the ethos.

Whoever comes out on top in the endless escalation is the one who’s right. The fact that you can’t escalate and they can just makes them more right than you, a priori.

I really don’t understand how MAGA can possibly make it more clear to non-MAGA that literally the only thing that matters is “might” and that’s what makes it all “right”. That is the playing field Americans are on right now. Full stop. There are no other rules they’re willing to play by. They’re literally telling everybody and showing everybody this fact.
 
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Right, not in demonstrations, they are better trained than that, but Israel is a bad comparison, because one class of citizens do get randomly executed for no reason by police all the time with similar made up excuses as in the US.
What class of citizens, and by whom? None that I'm aware of. If you're talking about the war in Gaza, totally different environment, no police involved, it's not Israeli territory, and Gazans aren't ISraeli citizens.
Arab-Israeli citizens don't get shot by police.
 
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Carewolf

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What class of citizens, and by whom?
Second class. As in not given citizenship rights but forcefully put under Israeli law.

By Israeli settlers, IDF, and by Israeli police, on the west bank living on land settlers want to steal. Do you need news links?
 
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Megalodon

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What class of citizens, and by whom? None that I'm aware of. If you're talking about the war in Gaza, totally different environment, no police involved, it's not Israeli territory, and Gazans aren't ISraeli citizens.

Okay but like, is that not Israeli territory in the sense that Canada or Japan is not Israeli territory and people there are free to go about their business as they please provided they are obeying the laws the locals have seen fit to put in place?

Or is it "not" Israeli territory, in the sense that Israel does not officially claim it, but you also can't do anything there that Israel doesn't like without sanction that is at the unilateral whim of Israel, up to and including being killed by air strike.

Because those are two very different things, and in the latter case I think it's fair to say there are complexities to the status that make inaccurate or at least incomplete to say it's "not Israeli territory" without qualification.
 

poochyena

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I think this sums it up well

https://bsky.app/profile/socialistdogmom.bsky.social/post/3mbz6mave3s25
edit; ugh, the post is hidden for those not logged in

1767999855441.png
 
JD Vance is now saying that ICE agents are going to go door to door to check for people to abduct.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...gressive-immigration-enforcement/88086884007/

"I think we're going to see those deportation numbers ramp up as we get more and more people online working for ICE, going door to door, making sure if you're an illegal alien you've got to get out of this country and if you want to come back, apply through the proper channels”.
I know we have the 4th Amendment, but it’s not worth the toilet paper it’s printed on these days.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
 
JD Vance is now saying that ICE agents are going to go door to door to check for people to abduct.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...gressive-immigration-enforcement/88086884007/


I know we have the 4th Amendment, but it’s not worth the toilet paper it’s printed on these days.
I said this over a year ago. I said then, the US is post-constitution.

Words have become meaningless too. I still almost laugh when I here someone use the word "illegal", as though it matters.
 

Megalodon

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JD Vance is now saying that ICE agents are going to go door to door to check for people to abduct.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...gressive-immigration-enforcement/88086884007/


I know we have the 4th Amendment, but it’s not worth the toilet paper it’s printed on these days.

Seems like a pretty safe bet they're just going to break down people's doors and search regardless of whether anyone is home and leave the place trashed. Might as well steal the gaming PC while they're at it.
 

Soothsayer786

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Link

It will never not be surprising to me to see these clowns pretend they’re patrolling the frontlines of Donetsk and not suburban Minneapolis.

Soccer moms kind of scare me too but not nearly as much as they do ICE agents it would seem. They're fed a steady diet of Fox News though which would have you believe that cities like Minneapolis are being burnt down and looted and are a barren hellscape of crime and villainy with liberals ready to riot at a moments notice. The honking horns and ICE/rape whistles are just too much for them to handle and their fear takes over. Or maybe the psycho just wanted to shoot someone and call them a fucking bitch. Maybe a bit of both?
 

goates

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wallinbl

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I said this over a year ago. I said then, the US is post-constitution.

Words have become meaningless too. I still almost laugh when I here someone use the word "illegal", as though it matters.
The "originalists" are just returning it to its original intent - protections for rich white men and no one else.
To quote from Chris Hayes earlier today:

"No, I said don't tread on me. You can get treaded on."

Extra relevant in that the ICE agent's house was flying a Gadsden flag.
Don't tread on me gave way pretty quickly to comply or die.

DHS out there posting white supremacy messages in their recruitment messaging:

1768065371994.png
 

Shavano

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FFS, as often happens with journalists they are giving far too much credence to an obviously bullshit position in order to offer the appearance of "balance".

Even if we give the officer a huge, huge benefit of the doubt and assume he did in fact fear for his life in that moment, that doesn't make the action of killing that woman in any way, shape, or fashion reasonable. How was shooting her going to prevent him getting run over? Her death was quite obviously not going to make the car come to a sudden, immediate, stop, and as we can see it didn't. It just resulted in the car being out of control, putting others in the vicinity at risk.
He fired at least the last two shots after he was already out of the path of the vehicle, and even when he fired the first one, it was already turning away from him. He pulled the gun before the vehicle started moving in his direction.
 

Shavano

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There is apparently a new video out there that Vance and others are circulating. I can't bring myself to watch any of them, but I'll be curious for comments here as the timing seems very suspect and I would immediately believe they are using a doctored video to try and provide some coverage.
Grainy and not from an angle where you can clearly see the position of the ICE cop vs. the car. It adds nothing.
 
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Megalodon

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A WSJ investigation found that in the last 6 months:

  • ICE has shot 8 people
  • 2 of whom have died
  • 5 of whom were US citizens
  • none drew a weapon
As I have long argued, there is no support for ICE's activities that is not support for doing it to US citizens. If you support or justify or do any form of apologetics for ICE in any way, you support and agree with using them as a paramilitary force within the US and against US citizens. That's what's happening, so that's what support or even grudging tolerance means.
 

wallinbl

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According to the mayor, property damage is an arrest-able offense, but murder is not.
Probably a bit unfair. That ICE agent is currently in hiding under federal protection. Not likely you're getting anywhere near him to arrest him. Even if you did, the federal government would use every channel to get a judge to undo it, including going all the way to the SCOTUS emergency docket. You're going to need to have your homework done to get that one, and there definitely hasn't been enough time to do that.
 

poochyena

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Probably a bit unfair. That ICE agent is currently in hiding under federal protection. Not likely you're getting anywhere near him to arrest him. Even if you did, the federal government would use every channel to get a judge to undo it, including going all the way to the SCOTUS emergency docket. You're going to need to have your homework done to get that one, and there definitely hasn't been enough time to do that.
They could at minimum announce an arrest warrant.