Huawei cancels MateBook laptop launch because of US export ban

MateBook launch cancelled for this week—and may not happen at all.

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[Nowicki]

Schadenfreude?

It was probably loaded with backdoors and Chinese government malware anyway....

/s

Thats not as much of a concern as the Chinese government taking control, pushing malicious updates, and or siphoning information from these devices through legit C&C servers in china. OEM malware would be easy to see, and not reliably allow timing of deployment of malware to make the attack more effective.

Its like the kaspersky issue. Its not that kaspersky is innately a problem, but the potential Russian control over that company does not give a lot of confidence.

*/s acknowledged *

 

[ForbiddenBarn]

I am curious to see how this situation will develop in terms of the coupling of technologies and the web of hardware/software licensing. My ignorant mind doesn't know of any other similar case in terms of scope and complexity. Uncharted territory here.

 

[ForbiddenBarn]

I really am fucking tired of this shitstorm. The only reason they are on this so called list is because their Chinese and the orange cry baby hates Non-Americans.

Are you really _that_ tired? Nothing they make is essential to your livelihood and there are tons of identical products from other companies.

 

[Fabermetrics]

I really am fucking tired of this shitstorm. The only reason they are on this so called list is because their Chinese and the orange cry baby hates Non-Americans.

If they were owned by Russia would you feel the same?

 

[Ralf The Dog]

I really am fucking tired of this shitstorm. The only reason they are on this so called list is because their Chinese and the orange cry baby hates Non-Americans.

Are you really _that_ tired? Nothing they make is essential to your livelihood and there are tons of identical products from other companies.

I think it is more of people getting tired of the propaganda being pumped out by Trump and his mindless supporters. They are why I now go out of my way to purchase products that are not made in the United States. Every day, more of the world does the same.

 

[Rubel]

I'm annoyed since, I got my daughter one of their laptops for Xmas. She loves it. I hope it's well-supported over the next few years, 'cause she's not getting another one until college.

 

[Fabermetrics]

I really am fucking tired of this shitstorm. The only reason they are on this so called list is because their Chinese and the orange cry baby hates Non-Americans.

If they were owned by Russia would you feel the same?

I'm not biased towards any countries citizens.

This isnt about its citizens, these are state owned companies.
So if the company making telecommunications equipment for you was owned by a state known for disinformation campaigns and open hostility towards your way of life, would you still trust it?

 

[raxadian]

Schadenfreude?

It was probably loaded with backdoors and Chinese government malware anyway....

/s

And of course better to have backdoors like Lenovo instead, right?

 

[Fabermetrics]

Schadenfreude?

It was probably loaded with backdoors and Chinese government malware anyway....

/s

And of course better to have backdoors like Lenovo instead, right?

What-about-isms prove the concern being made, dont they?

 

[Voyna i Mor]

I really am fucking tired of this shitstorm. The only reason they are on this so called list is because their Chinese and the orange cry baby hates Non-Americans.

Ah no, it's the Mafia technique Trump calls the Art of the Deal.

First, you threaten the other side (tariffs)
Then you take a hostage and start to torture them.
Finally you get them to do what you want.

Unfortunately Trump hasn't yet come up against the opponent who smiles, bows, and then goes off and plans terrible revenge when least expected.

Someone needs to explain the background to Pearl Harbor to him. Yes the US won that one - but China is much, much bigger than Japan.

 

[Voyna i Mor]

Schadenfreude?

It was probably loaded with backdoors and Chinese government malware anyway....

/s

Thats not as much of a concern as the Chinese government taking control, pushing malicious updates, and or siphoning information from these devices through legit C&C servers in china. OEM malware would be easy to see, and not reliably allow timing of deployment of malware to make the attack more effective.

Its like the kaspersky issue. Its not that kaspersky is innately a problem, but the potential Russian control over that company does not give a lot of confidence.

*/s acknowledged *

No, Kaspersky was about them detecting NSA backdoors and adding them to their virus signature list.

 

[Abhi Beckert]

Thats not as much of a concern as the Chinese government taking control, pushing malicious updates, and or siphoning information from these devices through legit C&C servers in china. OEM malware would be easy to see, and not reliably allow timing of deployment of malware to make the attack more effective.

What do you mean when you say "these" devices? I have never seen any credible report claiming a Huawei was pwned by any government.

Its like the kaspersky issue. Its not that kaspersky is innately a problem, but the potential Russian control over that company does not give a lot of confidence.

When Kaspersky was banned, there were credible reports that they had been used by Russia to attack US intelligence services.

Also, the ban on Kaspersky is limited to US government employees. Everybody else can still use their products (if they trust them... I wouldn't). The Huawei ban applies to everyone all over the world.

But mostly it's the lack of justification that concerns me, not the scope of the ban. The Kaspersky ban had plenty of justification.

 

[daveishere]

I really am fucking tired of this shitstorm. The only reason they are on this so called list is because their Chinese and the orange cry baby hates Non-Americans.

Ah no, it's the Mafia technique Trump calls the Art of the Deal.

First, you threaten the other side (tariffs)
Then you take a hostage and start to torture them.
Finally you get them to do what you want.

Unfortunately Trump hasn't yet come up against the opponent who smiles, bows, and then goes off and plans terrible revenge when least expected.

Someone needs to explain the background to Pearl Harbor to him. Yes the US won that one - but China is much, much bigger than Japan.

So we should fear China starting a shooting war over trade sanctions. Duly noted.

 

[dramamoose]

Schadenfreude?

It was probably loaded with backdoors and Chinese government malware anyway....

/s

Thats not as much of a concern as the Chinese government taking control, pushing malicious updates, and or siphoning information from these devices through legit C&C servers in china. OEM malware would be easy to see, and not reliably allow timing of deployment of malware to make the attack more effective.

Its like the kaspersky issue. Its not that kaspersky is innately a problem, but the potential Russian control over that company does not give a lot of confidence.

*/s acknowledged *

No, Kaspersky was about them detecting NSA backdoors and adding them to their virus signature list.

They didn't just detect them and add them to the signature list, the software uploaded the ZIP file to Kaspersky. They immediately deleted it (according to them), but that's not the problem. The problem is that, due to the powers both the Russian and American governments have, they could easily have directly taken that information. They also could theoretically install backdoors using a software update.

I have no problems with Kaspersky, and don't have any issues with running it on my personal machine, but the fact of the matter is that they could easily be compromised by the Russian government. I think it's entirely reasonable for the US to ban them from their systems, much as I would think it's entirely reasonable for the Russian government to ban American companies.

 

[Nowicki]

Thats not as much of a concern as the Chinese government taking control, pushing malicious updates, and or siphoning information from these devices through legit C&C servers in china. OEM malware would be easy to see, and not reliably allow timing of deployment of malware to make the attack more effective.

What do you mean when you say "these" devices? I have never seen any credible report claiming a Huawei was pwned by any government.

Its like the kaspersky issue. Its not that kaspersky is innately a problem, but the potential Russian control over that company does not give a lot of confidence.

When Kaspersky was banned, there were credible reports that they had been used by Russia to attack US intelligence services.

Also, the ban on Kaspersky is limited to US government employees. Everybody else can still use their products (if they trust them... I wouldn't). The Huawei ban applies to everyone all over the world.

But mostly it's the lack of justification that concerns me, not the scope of the ban. The Kaspersky ban had plenty of justification.

Kaspersky had evident issues related to it not having full control, china has potential issues relating to it, but none have surfaced *yet*. Both justify some level of ban for the sake of infrastructure, and national security concerns.

 

[r3ersx]

I've worked for two companies where there have been varying degrees of direct Chinese espionage. It impacts some industries more than others. I wouldn't boycott Chinese tech solutions, but I would be very wary of vendors with such strong connections to the government (which notably isn't all Chinese companies) and would risk assess accordingly.

 

[logic_88]

I really am fucking tired of this shitstorm. The only reason they are on this so called list is because their Chinese and the orange cry baby hates Non-Americans.

If they were owned by Russia would you feel the same?

I'm not biased towards any countries citizens.

This isnt about its citizens, these are state owned companies.
So if the company making telecommunications equipment for you was owned by a state known for disinformation campaigns and open hostility towards your way of life, would you still trust it?

By that logic, China should ban US technology companies?

 

[Abhi Beckert]

Thats not as much of a concern as the Chinese government taking control, pushing malicious updates, and or siphoning information from these devices through legit C&C servers in china. OEM malware would be easy to see, and not reliably allow timing of deployment of malware to make the attack more effective.

What do you mean when you say "these" devices? I have never seen any credible report claiming a Huawei was pwned by any government.

Its like the kaspersky issue. Its not that kaspersky is innately a problem, but the potential Russian control over that company does not give a lot of confidence.

When Kaspersky was banned, there were credible reports that they had been used by Russia to attack US intelligence services.

Also, the ban on Kaspersky is limited to US government employees. Everybody else can still use their products (if they trust them... I wouldn't). The Huawei ban applies to everyone all over the world.

But mostly it's the lack of justification that concerns me, not the scope of the ban. The Kaspersky ban had plenty of justification.

Kaspersky had evident issues related to it not having full control, china has potential issues relating to it, but none have surfaced *yet*. Both justify some level of ban for the sake of infrastructure, and national security concerns.

How is a Chinese citizen with a MateBook Pro a threat to US infrastructure or national security? There's no way this is justified.

 

[MagMan1979]

I really am fucking tired of this shitstorm. The only reason they are on this so called list is because their Chinese and the orange cry baby hates Non-Americans.

If they were owned by Russia would you feel the same?

I'm not biased towards any countries citizens.

This isnt about its citizens, these are state owned companies.
So if the company making telecommunications equipment for you was owned by a state known for disinformation campaigns and open hostility towards your way of life, would you still trust it?

By that logic, China should ban US technology companies?

Seems you do not understand what "state owned" really means...

 

[Nowicki]

Thats not as much of a concern as the Chinese government taking control, pushing malicious updates, and or siphoning information from these devices through legit C&C servers in china. OEM malware would be easy to see, and not reliably allow timing of deployment of malware to make the attack more effective.

What do you mean when you say "these" devices? I have never seen any credible report claiming a Huawei was pwned by any government.

Its like the kaspersky issue. Its not that kaspersky is innately a problem, but the potential Russian control over that company does not give a lot of confidence.

When Kaspersky was banned, there were credible reports that they had been used by Russia to attack US intelligence services.

Also, the ban on Kaspersky is limited to US government employees. Everybody else can still use their products (if they trust them... I wouldn't). The Huawei ban applies to everyone all over the world.

But mostly it's the lack of justification that concerns me, not the scope of the ban. The Kaspersky ban had plenty of justification.

Kaspersky had evident issues related to it not having full control, china has potential issues relating to it, but none have surfaced *yet*. Both justify some level of ban for the sake of infrastructure, and national security concerns.

How is a Chinese citizen with a MateBook Pro a threat to US infrastructure or national security? There's no way this is justified.

I think in regards to the China Huawei ban its more about the 5g infrastructure, and other products were included by default. Someone can correct me if I am wrong or missing something more significant

 

[Albino_Boo]

I've worked for two companies where there have been varying degrees of direct Chinese espionage. It impacts some industries more than others. I wouldn't boycott Chinese tech solutions, but I would be very wary of vendors with such strong connections to the government (which notably isn't all Chinese companies) and would risk assess accordingly.

There are any companies in China that are independent of the state. You say no to the Chinese state, they take everything away.

 

[spacekobra]

I really am fucking tired of this shitstorm. The only reason they are on this so called list is because their Chinese and the orange cry baby hates Non-Americans.

If they were owned by Russia would you feel the same?

I'm not biased towards any countries citizens.

This isnt about its citizens, these are state owned companies.
So if the company making telecommunications equipment for you was owned by a state known for disinformation campaigns and open hostility towards your way of life, would you still trust it?

Its complete bullshit that American companies don't do the same thing.

In which, other countries can ban companies they feel are a concern.

China has banned American companies too.

I'm very shocked by the tech community when it comes to the topic of the Huawei trade ban. Its almost as if, because they make a product relevant to you (not just you) that all reasonableness goes out the window.

The US bans a company who concerns them. Any other country can do the same. They don't need proof, they don't need to point fingers at other countries to justify their decisions. e.g. The EU not banning Huawei doesn't mean the US is wrong. The EU joining in and banning Huawei doesn't mean its right either. Global policies are not something we can just write down a few sentences about and say we understand it. Nor can we sit here and act like the US is being obviously hypocritical or defensive about US tech (this one is obviously wrong since companies are losing money from this ban)

/rant

I think I'm sick of knee jerk responses to this topic now.

 

[Abhi Beckert]

Seems you do not understand what "state owned" really means...

Huawei is not state owned. They are owned by a "trade union committee" that represent union members the company (according to wikipedia, "about half" of their 188,000 employees are members).

Chinese law does not allow "limited liability" corporations to be traded on a public stock market - otherwise that would be their ownership model.

The allegation by the US government is that Huawei someday might be influenced by the Chinese government. I fail to see how this doesn't apply to pretty much every company in the world.

 

[Fabermetrics]

I really am fucking tired of this shitstorm. The only reason they are on this so called list is because their Chinese and the orange cry baby hates Non-Americans.

If they were owned by Russia would you feel the same?

I'm not biased towards any countries citizens.

This isnt about its citizens, these are state owned companies.
So if the company making telecommunications equipment for you was owned by a state known for disinformation campaigns and open hostility towards your way of life, would you still trust it?

By that logic, China should ban US technology companies?

I see no reason why Russia and china would trust the US. So I guess once again, whut-abutt-ism proves the concern is genuine.

 

[john-whorfin]

I've worked for two companies where there have been varying degrees of direct Chinese espionage. It impacts some industries more than others. I wouldn't boycott Chinese tech solutions, but I would be very wary of vendors with such strong connections to the government (which notably isn't all Chinese companies) and would risk assess accordingly.

There are any companies in China that are independent of the state. You say no to the Chinese state, they take everything away.

As opposed to the US, where the government intercepts the hardware and plants their own backdoors, like they did with Cisco. Biggest difference being the US got caught, while there is no evidence of backdoors in Huawei products.

 

[logic_88]

I really am fucking tired of this shitstorm. The only reason they are on this so called list is because their Chinese and the orange cry baby hates Non-Americans.

If they were owned by Russia would you feel the same?

The ownership of Huawei is somewhat opaque, granted.

But since Cisco gear was intercepted by the NSA and made into a spying unit, does the distinction of ownership matter?


I'm not biased towards any countries citizens.

This isnt about its citizens, these are state owned companies.
So if the company making telecommunications equipment for you was owned by a state known for disinformation campaigns and open hostility towards your way of life, would you still trust it?

By that logic, China should ban US technology companies?

Seems you do not understand what "state owned" really means...

The question of Huawei ownership is somewhat opaque, granted.

But since Cisco gear was intercepted by the NSA and made into spying units, does ownership of the company actually matter?

 

[fazalmajid]

This isnt about its citizens, these are state owned companies.
So if the company making telecommunications equipment for you was owned by a state known for disinformation campaigns and open hostility towards your way of life, would you still trust it?

Huawei is not state-owned, it is employee-owned.

Now, like all Chinese-based companies, it is subject to coercion by the Chinese state and would not be able to say "no" if the Chinese government ordered them to add backdoors to their products and be quiet about it, but the same is also true of US companies with respect to the US government. Joe Nacchio at Qwest was the only telco executive to refuse to cooperate with George W. Bush's unconstitutional warrantless wiretapping of the Internet, and he was conveniently sent to prison for allegedly unrelated offenses. You can be certain the other US telecoms executives got the message loud and clear.

 

[Fabermetrics]

This isnt about its citizens, these are state owned companies.
So if the company making telecommunications equipment for you was owned by a state known for disinformation campaigns and open hostility towards your way of life, would you still trust it?

Huawei is not state-owned, it is employee-owned.

Now, like all Chinese-based companies, it is subject to coercion by the Chinese state and would not be able to say "no" if the Chinese government ordered them to add backdoors to their products and be quiet about it, but the same is also true of US companies with respect to the US government. Joe Nacchio at Qwest was the only telco executive to refuse to cooperate with George W. Bush's unconstitutional warrantless wiretapping of the Internet, and he was conveniently sent to prison for allegedly unrelated offenses. You can be certain the other US telecoms executives got the message loud and clear.

Glad you showed an example proving the threat of government coercion is very real in this day and age. Clearly the ban has good merits then.

 

[r3ersx]

I really am fucking tired of this shitstorm. The only reason they are on this so called list is because their Chinese and the orange cry baby hates Non-Americans.

If they were owned by Russia would you feel the same?

I'm not biased towards any countries citizens.

This isnt about its citizens, these are state owned companies.
So if the company making telecommunications equipment for you was owned by a state known for disinformation campaigns and open hostility towards your way of life, would you still trust it?

By that logic, China should ban US technology companies?

I mean they certainly ban a lot of US internet companies, social media, etc. That's nothing new for China.

 

[john-whorfin]

There have been no backdoors found in Huawei gear, either from the factory or added by the Chinese government.

Cisco gear was found to have backdoors that were planted by the NSA after production.

And yet I'm supposed to believe that Huawei is the problem, when there is evidence of the US doing what Huawei is accused of doing.

China needs to shut down Apple manufacturing for a couple of weeks so the people in the US that don't read this forum find out about the Huawei ban.

 

[Fabermetrics]

There have been no backdoors found in Huawei gear, either from the factory or added by the Chinese government.

Cisco gear was found to have backdoors that were planted by the NSA after production.

And yet I'm supposed to believe that Huawei is the problem, when there is evidence of the US doing what Huawei is accused of doing.

China needs to shut down Apple manufacturing for a couple of weeks so the people in the US that don't read this forum find out about the Huawei ban.

You know the US was caught because of a whistleblower right?
How do you expect a whistleblower to survive in China's surveillance state?
Odds are they are currently in one of the chinese death camps.

 

[Fabermetrics]

Everyone who is against the ban here seems to also agree that the threat of a government backdoors is very real. Its an odd dichotomy that they admit the US and other governments do this thing, but that we should accept the threat from china, because we do it too? Why the hell would we do that? Do you really think the risk from China's backdoors and the US spying on us has the same weight in the event of conflict?

 

[daveishere]

Everyone who is against the ban here seems to also agree that the threat of a government backdoors is very real. Its an odd dichotomy that they admit the US and other governments do this thing, but that we should accept the threat from china, because we do it too? Why the hell would we do that? Do you really think the risk from China's backdoors and the US spying on us has the same weight in the event of conflict?

This^. I fully expect both sides to be spying and feel that they wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't. The bullshit that "The U.S. is spying but the Chinese don't!!!!" is childish nonsense. Cut with the bullshit,kids, and come into Big Boy World. Grow the fuck up.