How is EV technology being accepted by the aftermarket?
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
You only see pro-choice arguments like this when money is involved...
At the same time, I read this akin to, "Catalytic converters are expensive. We really should have both leaded and unleaded gas available. Consumers really should just have the choice to buy a car that takes whatever sort of fuel they want."
Upvote
269
(275
/
-6)
Exactly. Choice is fine, but it's a completely different context when we know that one of the choices is continuing the status quo of killing our planet, whereas the other one doesn't.
"You should have the choice over whether your children have animals and trees when they grow up, or not", basically.
Upvote
171
(177
/
-6)
As much as they want to sound technology-agnostic, without government private industry has no real incentive to innovate; they all wind up agreeing to enshittifying their industries (see: airlines, streaming, cable TV, etc.).
The Chinese will own the 21st century auto industry if we don’t stop acting like 12-year-olds.
The Chinese will own the 21st century auto industry if we don’t stop acting like 12-year-olds.
Upvote
146
(151
/
-5)
Environmental arguments aside, if you ever actually start using an electric vehicle, it's a game-changer for normal drivers. I personally love it. I had some fears bout range and usage, but they fell flat when I actually bought the car and started using it. I'm honestly just sad that more people won't get to see those benefits.
Upvote
157
(158
/
-1)
Upvote
19
(22
/
-3)
Right, one's freedom to be an asshole ends when it impinges on the rest of us.
Upvote
149
(154
/
-5)
ICE cars are the new HDDs.
They're HDDs at the dawn of SSDs.
They won't go away, but there's no coming back now.
They're HDDs at the dawn of SSDs.
They won't go away, but there's no coming back now.
Upvote
70
(80
/
-10)
RickRoyLeonPrisZhoraRacha
Ars Scholae Palatinae
SEMA- the same organizer that promotes emissions-eliminators ("they might be illegal so check with your DOT guidelines ... but BUY our products!"), illegal LEDs lighting for grills, under-chassis, and non-emergency vehicles! SEMA needs to go like CES...away.
Want PURE whistling-diesel-elimination and roll coal? Get it at SEMA!
Exhaust not loud enough? Come to SEMA!
Upvote
113
(119
/
-6)
Does Ars plan to stop reviewing gas cars and be one of the first publications to take a stand ?
Upvote
23
(47
/
-24)
"what we are against is that we have to choose this, and that’s it"
That's exactly what TRILLIONS in word wide oil subsidies do every year!
Fine, end the subsidies. Let tech win on its own commercial merit.
That's exactly what TRILLIONS in word wide oil subsidies do every year!
Fine, end the subsidies. Let tech win on its own commercial merit.
Upvote
89
(90
/
-1)
Keith Tanner
Ars Tribunus Militum
I think that's what makes it a good analogy. HDDs are still necessary in some heavy duty applications. But for the bulk of consumer applications, they are the wrong choice.
Upvote
100
(103
/
-3)
Seems like a good analogy to me. If you need disk space (range) you go with HDDs (ICEs). If you need disk access (torque), you go with SSDs (EVs). If all SSDs had the cost and space of HDDs, I can't really see a reason one would choose HDDs. Lots of HDDs are already hybrid to some degree. Another comparison could be made between drive formats and methods of connecting car to the grid, but all analogies break down and that just seems like more effort for not needed addition.
Upvote
39
(41
/
-2)
Keith Tanner
Ars Tribunus Militum
- Add bookmark
- Featured
- #17
My company is a SEMA member and I've been going to the show for nearly a quarter century. They're really, really helpful when it comes to trying to be emissions compliant. We've made good use of the lab in Diamond Bar over the years. When I go to the show, I spend much of my time in meetings and seminars regarding emissions instead of ogling the car with the most LEDs.
But they're also a very political organization that lobbies against anything that will make life more difficult for the industry, even if what they're lobbying against is for the greater good.
As for what you see on the show, keep in mind that it's a trade show with a wide variety of exhibitors. If you're a small company that's been working for three years on a skateboard chassis that will slip under a classic Mustang because that was where everything was going three years ago, you're still going to exhibit it. And there's still interest in retropowering classics or using electric power in interesting ways.
But they're also a very political organization that lobbies against anything that will make life more difficult for the industry, even if what they're lobbying against is for the greater good.
As for what you see on the show, keep in mind that it's a trade show with a wide variety of exhibitors. If you're a small company that's been working for three years on a skateboard chassis that will slip under a classic Mustang because that was where everything was going three years ago, you're still going to exhibit it. And there's still interest in retropowering classics or using electric power in interesting ways.
Upvote
87
(87
/
0)
Gnafu the Great
Ars Centurion
Whenever I see someone refer to an "EV mandate" it tells me all I need to know about them and their business. Get outta here with that noise!
Upvote
60
(66
/
-6)
These folks also have the choice to put their seat belt on each time they get in the car.
Upvote
11
(12
/
-1)
If only that were true in the US, where being an asshole is embraced, even championed. "Freedom of expression," on a personal or corporate level, is consistently prioritized over societal responsibility.
Upvote
51
(54
/
-3)
Even in Europe where they are investing alot in EVs, they will have a hard time too.
Upvote
6
(9
/
-3)
It's a great analogy, and I'm going to steal it!
Basically, we're nearing the end of the "SSDs are for enthusiasts, but they still keep a bigger hard drive in their computer" era and onto the "An SSD is better for 99% of computer users out there, but there are still a few who will need a mechanical hard drive." The next step after that is exactly what you said. "Almost no consumers bother buying mechanical hard drives anymore, but industry still needs to use them."
Upvote
45
(46
/
-1)
Not really. The automotive aftermarket is enormously broad and the majority of it doesn't care much whether vehicles are EV or ICE, their products will still get developed and will still sell. Even if every new car sold had to be an EV starting tomorrow the industry would be just fine.
Undoubtedly there are some very vocal members that would have to shift their business models or would find their products' market shrink but that is going to happen over time no matter what. This just happens to be a political moment where they think they can get some traction for those members.
Upvote
14
(14
/
0)
Gnafu the Great
Ars Centurion
Please show me where Ars has reviewed a combustion-powered gaming PC.
Upvote
14
(23
/
-9)
It feels like I've been waiting forever for a practical EV conversion to become available. By "practical" I mean to say: using a proven set of off the shelf components, doesn't require an electrical engineering degree to avoid killing yourself, and where the kit alone doesn't cost MORE than an entire new EV from a dealer.
As it stands, this still doesn't exist despite companies talking about EV conversion kits for the past 15 years. The companies selling non-vaporware EV conversions only seem interested in an ultra-polished, white-glove treatment (for multiple hundreds of thousands). In other words, very exclusive full conversions - done by them, and at their shop. Not for the end user or a DIY-er. The existing 'official' conversions couldn't be further from DIY friendly either. They amount to expensive toys or conversation pieces to be collected, garaged, and occasionally gawked at.
Sadly, I don't know that this is any different - a quick glance at the Elkington website shows some very custom work, along with no pricing aside from being able to place a deposit to reserve a future order. I'd love to see an actual product on the market, but this seems a lot closer to the GM eCrate - another "DIY" kit which was only ever half-released and sold in limited quantities to select installers.
Last edited:
Upvote
19
(20
/
-1)
End all the subsidies including those hidden as externalities. To burn a gallon of gasoline you need to pay, up front, the cost of putting all that CO2 back into a non polluting form. Then, may the best tech win!
Last edited:
Upvote
59
(59
/
0)
This is what you get when you have 8000 years during which you give a reward to the genes for selfishness via "generational wealth transfer".
Upvote
9
(12
/
-3)
That will happen with the RTX 6090, which has a V10 in order to really crank up the FrameGen to quadruple digits.
Upvote
21
(21
/
0)
ICE tech has advanced to the point it is no longer reliable. So many auto makers have shit drive trains that break down constantly in the quest for better fuel milage. EVs are the future no matter what the MAGAttes think.All Technology Matters!
edit: massive /s on this
Upvote
-9
(8
/
-17)
Industry innovates just enough to get a cash cow. Then they spend the rest of their time milking it until it dies.
We just saw that with the bankruptcy of iRobot. They innovated the Roomba and then forgot to continue innovating. Shareholders want to see immediate profits, not long-term reinvestment.
Upvote
24
(24
/
0)
The US is just going to get left behind if it doesn't pull it's head out of its backside. What a lot of free-dumb b.s.
Upvote
16
(16
/
0)
Silly analogy. HDDs have trade offs vs SSDs, but their use isn’t harmful to everyone else, so the user can make the trade off decision purely on the merits as they see them - there really aren’t any significant externalities. ICE cars clearly have substantial externalities that are minimized or ignored by the sellers and “supporters”. They also (stupidly) have culture war aspects. People can rationally argue over the technical and economic aspects of HDD vs SSD (ok, there is sometimes bits of fanboy-ism, but not much). There is far less rationality in the ICE vs EV debate. And with regard to the externalities and culture war aspects of ICE cars, the people at SEMA apparently ignore the one and bank on the other.
Upvote
5
(8
/
-3)
ConnertheCat
Ars Centurion
Getting rid of the electric car rebates? Fine, now get rid of all the oil/gas subsidies.
Upvote
36
(36
/
0)
Meanwhile China moves ahead while the US moves backwards. Just wait to see what happens to the domestic auto industry when someone can buy a fully loaded EV in China for under $20,000 and you can't get anything here for less than $50,000.
Upvote
10
(13
/
-3)
Keith Tanner
Ars Tribunus Militum
Low volume production is inherently more expensive than high volume. The parts for an EV conversion still aren't cheap, especially batteries.
Heck, GM's "connect and cruise" ICE packages cost more than some new ICE cars as well - and they're just an engine/transmission/control unit. No fuel tanks, fuel pumps, cooling systems, other drivetrain parts or any sort of mounting system. They're a DIY option, but there's still a lot of custom work to do.
So if you're going to be doing a conversion, you're already going to be spending a fair bit of money. And if people will be spending a fair bit of money, they have high expectations. Thus the white glove treatment. It's a lot easier to justify a polished $100k conversion than a $50k conversion that uses a bunch of junkyard parts and is slapped into a rough looking car. If you've spent a bunch of time and money developing a properly engineered swap, you also don't want any rando putting it together badly and giving your work a bad name. So you keep it in-house.
We used to be in the LS swap game, so this is not idle speculation as to what customers want or what it takes to do things right.
Upvote
32
(32
/
0)
For better or worse, the components of a conversion kit (motor, battery pack and BMS) are the main component costs of an EV, given that a relatively heavy chassis, non-streamlined converted ICEV is always going to have much worse efficiency performance and the manual work converting one (basically only the restomod community) - and the number of potential customers for a conversion kits is really small and so the economics scale of selling a few hundred conversion kits are going to make the per unit costs pretty high.
Is it that bad? a very quick Google search shows EV conversion kits for $20k, which are a lot, but not actually more than a new EV.
Edit: Ninja'd by Keith Tanner.
Upvote
12
(12
/
0)
To paraphrase the famous quote: "your choice to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."
Last edited:
Upvote
15
(15
/
0)