HDR gaming coming to every PS4 via firmware update next week

You won't need to buy the new PS4 Pro to get HDR compatibility.

Read the whole story

 

[BugblatterII]

Dolby Vision requires a dolby chip, so presumably it's going to be HDR10.

I'm very curious about the HDMI 2.0a thing.

 

[Statistical]

TheLastOfUnchartedS[/url]":3xe6ocri]

Sufinsil[/url]":3xe6ocri]But no 4K support on the PS4 Slim for streaming or discs, which the One S can do.

For which, you need a 4K TV, considering not everyone has one. On the other hand, anyone with a ps4 and standard HDR capable TV can get benefited from this feature.

Yeah haven't seen many non 4K HDR HDTVs out there.

While not exhaustive all 65 HDR capable HDTVs sold at Crutchfield are also 4K
http://www.crutchfield.com/g_146350/All ... ures|FFHDR

 

[Statistical]

BugblatterII[/url]":3dub67ps]Dolby Vision requires a dolby chip, so presumably it's going to be HDR10.

I'm very curious about the HDMI 2.0a thing.

Me too. As far as I know HDR requires HDMI 2.0a. So are they saying they can upgrade the HDMI output to 2.0a with just a firmware update? If so that is pretty cool.

 

[Scud]

BugblatterII[/url]":2xbm1m65]Dolby Vision requires a dolby chip, so presumably it's going to be HDR10.

My LG TV is getting Dolby Vision via a firmware update and AFAIK there is no such thing as a Dolby chip (Dolby doesn't make hardware anymore).

 

[kinsei]

reallynotnick[/url]":x6fc6ia0]Is there a list of HDR compatible games? Or is nothing going to be in HDR come the update?

I don't think that there are any existing intentions of releasing games in HDR. It's strictly for streaming movies off Netflix and a couple of other sources.

 

[Statistical]

kinsei[/url]":16fteqki]

reallynotnick[/url]":16fteqki]Is there a list of HDR compatible games? Or is nothing going to be in HDR come the update?

I don't think that there are any existing intentions of releasing games in HDR. It's strictly for streaming movies off Netflix and a couple of other sources.

Netflix HDR is for 4K only. I don't know any streaming or rental service which does HDR for FHD. Then again I don't know of any FHD (1080p) HDTV which does HDR either.

 

[onlysublime]

it can't have Dolby Vision. Dolby Vision requires hardware on both sides.

I'm impressed they can add HDR10 if that is what it is. However, not saying so is bizarre. Hope this is not some fake form of HDR that is not HDR10. How are they going to upgrade HDMI 1.4 to 2.0a? That also lends credence to a non-standard HDR.

 

[Evan E]

kinsei[/url]":2t8fvjtn]

reallynotnick[/url]":2t8fvjtn]Is there a list of HDR compatible games? Or is nothing going to be in HDR come the update?

I don't think that there are any existing intentions of releasing games in HDR. It's strictly for streaming movies off Netflix and a couple of other sources.

The conference showed a number of games running in HDR, and they specifically mentioned that HDR could be added to existing games via a patch. Shadow Of Mordor, which came out two years ago, was one of the games they showed.

 

[onlysublime]

iOSecure[/url]":1m8mjpd3]Do PC gamers have HDR already?

No. There are no PC monitors that are HDR. They are coming out in 2017.

In terms of hardware support, AMD and Nvidia are just now implementing it in their latest graphics cards.

In terms of software solutions, some games internally rendered it in HDR but when it gets outputted, it has to be crushed down to 8-bit color to be seen.

And you cannot view HDR content in a recorded game video, you cannot view HDR without a monitor that can support HDR, you can't see the content on a PC monitor or smartphone or tablet because none of those have HDR screens. So all these HDR screens are faked like when you watch a TV commercial about a TV. Of course it has to be simulated because you're watching an ad of how beautiful the Sony XXX TV is but you're watching it on your RCA POS TV. Or trying to tell people how beautiful color TV is but you're watching it on a black and white TV.

HDR for video is also completely different than HDR for photography. For photography, the sensor has a limit in the information it can collect. So you take multiple exposures and then you use software to combine information from those exposures to generate a final image. HDR video (especially for CGI) is having a much greater color gamut to work with. 1 billion colors (10-bit color like in HDR10) or 68 billion colors (in Dolby Vision 12-bit color) versus 16 million colors (standard displays). Because you're not capturing information and trying to add those together. You are rendering the full information.

 

[grstanford]

onlysublime[/url]":3cjgk3ht]it can't have Dolby Vision. Dolby Vision requires hardware on both sides.

I'm impressed they can add HDR10 if that is what it is. However, not saying so is bizarre. Hope this is not some fake form of HDR that is not HDR10. How are they going to upgrade HDMI 1.4 to 2.0a? That also lends credence to a non-standard HDR.

The PS4 has custom silicon for HDMI output, who knows what is possible with it?

If the HDR turns out not to be HDR10 but is "fake" somehow yet still looks visually identical then what does it actually matter?!

 

[onlysublime]

grstanford[/url]":1mojr67a]

onlysublime[/url]":1mojr67a]it can't have Dolby Vision. Dolby Vision requires hardware on both sides.

I'm impressed they can add HDR10 if that is what it is. However, not saying so is bizarre. Hope this is not some fake form of HDR that is not HDR10. How are they going to upgrade HDMI 1.4 to 2.0a? That also lends credence to a non-standard HDR.

The PS4 has custom silicon for HDMI output, who knows what is possible with it?

If the HDR turns out not to be HDR10 but is "fake" somehow yet still looks visually identical then what does it actually matter?!

Well, since neither the PS4 or PS4 Pro can play 4K video or HDR video, then it doesn't matter whether it supports a standard HDR format. But the metadata for HDR video is designed to be recognized by Dolby Vision or HDR10. If you have a nonstandard HDR, then it's merely ignoring the data and showing it as a normal movie.

And if it's a non-standard HDR format, then that means the game designer (in a multiplatform environment) can't simply encode for HDR10 and see it perform the same for each game console. He would have to write specifically for the PS4 Pro.

And here's the worrisome thing. Written by Eurogamer:

"But House didn't mention what HDR content would be available for regular PS4s to play. It doesn't have a UHD Blu-ray player, 4K streaming video from Netflix and YouTube was only mentioned as a PS4 Pro feature, and HDR was only mentioned in the context of games playing on PS4 Pro."

 

[Sufinsil]

Most 4K UHD TVs have a built in 4K streaming capabilities. Any decent Sony TV has AndroidTV. Streaming on a PS4 Pro is not really adding much value while UHD disc playback does.

 

[grstanford]

onlysublime[/url]":1hrzi6e1]

grstanford[/url]":1hrzi6e1]

onlysublime[/url]":1hrzi6e1]it can't have Dolby Vision. Dolby Vision requires hardware on both sides.

I'm impressed they can add HDR10 if that is what it is. However, not saying so is bizarre. Hope this is not some fake form of HDR that is not HDR10. How are they going to upgrade HDMI 1.4 to 2.0a? That also lends credence to a non-standard HDR.

The PS4 has custom silicon for HDMI output, who knows what is possible with it?

If the HDR turns out not to be HDR10 but is "fake" somehow yet still looks visually identical then what does it actually matter?!

Well, since neither the PS4 or PS4 Pro can play 4K video or HDR video, then it doesn't matter whether it supports a standard HDR format. But the metadata for HDR video is designed to be recognized by Dolby Vision or HDR10. If you have a nonstandard HDR, then it's merely ignoring the data and showing it as a normal movie.

And if it's a non-standard HDR format, then that means the game designer (in a multiplatform environment) can't simply encode for HDR10 and see it perform the same for each game console. He would have to write specifically for the PS4 Pro.

And here's the worrisome thing. Written by Eurogamer:

"But House didn't mention what HDR content would be available for regular PS4s to play. It doesn't have a UHD Blu-ray player, 4K streaming video from Netflix and YouTube was only mentioned as a PS4 Pro feature, and HDR was only mentioned in the context of games playing on PS4 Pro."

Firstly, there are 1080p TV's on the market that can support HDR10. You don't need 4K in order to have HDR10.

Secondly Sony said that Shadows of Mordor was getting patched to support HDR, so you can have HDR outside of video.

 

[onlysublime]

grstanford[/url]":1l5q779x]

onlysublime[/url]":1l5q779x]

grstanford[/url]":1l5q779x]

onlysublime[/url]":1l5q779x]it can't have Dolby Vision. Dolby Vision requires hardware on both sides.

I'm impressed they can add HDR10 if that is what it is. However, not saying so is bizarre. Hope this is not some fake form of HDR that is not HDR10. How are they going to upgrade HDMI 1.4 to 2.0a? That also lends credence to a non-standard HDR.

The PS4 has custom silicon for HDMI output, who knows what is possible with it?

If the HDR turns out not to be HDR10 but is "fake" somehow yet still looks visually identical then what does it actually matter?!

Well, since neither the PS4 or PS4 Pro can play 4K video or HDR video, then it doesn't matter whether it supports a standard HDR format. But the metadata for HDR video is designed to be recognized by Dolby Vision or HDR10. If you have a nonstandard HDR, then it's merely ignoring the data and showing it as a normal movie.

And if it's a non-standard HDR format, then that means the game designer (in a multiplatform environment) can't simply encode for HDR10 and see it perform the same for each game console. He would have to write specifically for the PS4 Pro.

And here's the worrisome thing. Written by Eurogamer:

"But House didn't mention what HDR content would be available for regular PS4s to play. It doesn't have a UHD Blu-ray player, 4K streaming video from Netflix and YouTube was only mentioned as a PS4 Pro feature, and HDR was only mentioned in the context of games playing on PS4 Pro."

Firstly, there are 1080p TV's on the market that can support HDR10. You don't need 4K in order to have HDR10.

Secondly Sony said that Shadows of Mordor was getting patched to support HDR, so you can have HDR outside of video.

name 1 1080P TV that has HDR10 or Dolby Vision. there aren't any. TV manufacturers are not going to put their hottest feature on a commodity TV and all 1080P TVs are considered commodity now. No one will pay $2K for a 1080P TV any more.

 

[onlysublime]

Scud[/url]":aw1bgn82]

BugblatterII[/url]":aw1bgn82]Dolby Vision requires a dolby chip, so presumably it's going to be HDR10.

My LG TV is getting Dolby Vision via a firmware update and AFAIK there is no such thing as a Dolby chip (Dolby doesn't make hardware anymore).

tell me what model of LG. because all Dolby Vision TVs support HDR10. there's no way in hell there's a HDR10 TV that can add DV. it's pure hardware.

which is sad because DV is superior. 12-bit color (68 billion colors) versus 10-bit color (1 billion colors). higher brightness for DV TVs as well. And DV already provides metadata support so that a movie is shown exactly the way the director intended (rather than how the user sets up their TV).

 

[Red Herring]

Given that Microsoft had to bump the speed of the GPU by 6% in the Xbox One S to help mitigate the performance impact from using HDR I wonder what this means for the regular PS4 ?

Will PS4 games that use HDR run slower than those without and given that the only HDR TV's are 4K ones why even bother pushing HDR on the regular PS4. I guess it will help with adoption a little bit.

I also wish Dolby had been a lot smarter in giving it away to console makers for near nothing to spur adoption. Everything I have read and seen shows Dolby Vision is far easier to use and a more bulletproof system in comparison to HDR10 were a lot can go wrong especially on the display side so things were it can look very different depending upon the HDR10 implementation.

 

[Statistical]

grstanford[/url]":eqpnauzv]
Firstly, there are 1080p TV's on the market that can support HDR10. You don't need 4K in order to have HDR10.

You sure about that? While in theory any TV could even a 22" SDTV, as a practical matter 100% of the currently available HDR content is 4K. Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, youtube 100% of their HDR content is 4K HDR. Nobody (not even Sony) is selling HDR 1080p sets and I haven't heard any plans for anyone to start. 4K and HDR is being wrapped up as UHD Premium to to sell top of the line sets (with top of the line profit margins). In time that will become mainstream and 1080p (non HDR) will be the discount 720p set of today.

 

[BlueTemplar]

I was in the process of writing a long comment, but stumbled on this article that explains it better than I could :
https://www.avforums.com/article/what-i ... sion.12870
(Check also the comments discussing what HDMI version you need for "HDR" : various sources point to between 1.4 and 2.1 for dynamic metadata.)

Sony and Microsoft (and TV makers) are just using "HDR" as a buzzword to sell their consoles, it can mean a lot of different things.

My comment anyway :
---------------------------------
Dynamic range (aka contrast) is the ratio between the highest luminance and lowest luminance.
Luminance is measured in candelas per square meter (aka "nit")
A candela is the unit of luminous intensity, emitted by a light source, wavelength-weighted to correspond to the sensitivity of the day vision of the typical human eye.
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutori ... -range.htm

The human retina has either about 100:1 or about 10,000:1 static contrast ratio (or "static dynamic range"?). This is also measured in powers of 2 : 100 ≈ 2^6.6 (aka 7 "f-stops" or "stops") or 10,000:1 ≈ 2^13.3 (or 13 "stops")
The human eye also supposedly has a much bigger dynamic contrast ratio ("dynamic dynamic range"?) : from about 10^8cd/m² to 10^-6cd/m² : 10^14 ≈ 2^46.5 (46.5 stops)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_eye#Dynamic_range
-----------------------

Some other comments :

1.) To achieve that range, accommodation is needed, which can take up to 30 minutes on the lower end.
http://www.lightillusion.com/uhdtv.html
And using too much the human dynamic dynamic range is known to use eye fatigue, so "HDR" might actually not be the best idea.

2.) "HDR" might be too dim for daytime :
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-vs-201604104279.htm

3.) Besides HDR10 and Dolby Vision standards, there's also BBC HDR and Technicolor/Philips HDR :
https://www.avforums.com/article/what-is-hdr.11039

4.) Dolby really tried to make a standard that would be close to the limits of average human vision :
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-f ... -eotf.html

5.) Using wider color spaces might hit a practical limit way sooner than reaching 100%, it might not be worth it to go much farther than the Pointer’s gamut which is (an approximation of) the gamut of real surface colors as can be seen by the human eye :
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/pointers_gamut.htm
(a counter example neon sign colors)
Looks like "HDR" Rec.2020 was designed with this in mind, as while it covers 57.2% of colors, it covers 99.7% of Pointer's gamut (and more).

6.) Here's a discussion about "HDR" gaming :
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1233308

7.) Screens with a subset of "HDR" specifications, larger than Rec.709 "HDTV" specifications have been available for years/decades, be it for bits per color, contrast, maximum luminance...

8.) The Web is not ready. It's based on the sRGB standard, which is 8 bits per color, Rec.709 color space, and assumes an Electro-Optical Transfer Function of Cathodic Ray Tubes (aka "gamma") :
http://www.poynton.com/PDFs/Rehabilitation_of_gamma.pdf
So all the JPGs, PNGs, GIFs, text color made for "SDR" is likely to look wrong on "HDR" screens.
(That's already a problem, especially on Windows, for larger than sRGB color spaces... I hear Firefox might be partially compatible?)
For "HDR", like for "4k", the whole graphical pipeline from the artist to the viewer needs to be standardized and compatible for the picture to be properly reproduced.

9.) With "HDR" and "4k" we might soon be able to achieve the quality of good 35mm film!
http://www.homecinemaguru.com/can-we-se ... ou-betcha/

 

[Sandwichman]

Funny how everyone has come away with more questions than answers from this event. No real specs and completely cryptic when it comes to 4K and HDR capabilities. Sony is really acting arrogant and I may just not upgrade my PS4 and go PC instead.

 

[Sixclaws]

So much glare in the Horizon Zero Dawn demo they showcased..

 

[Evan E]

Sixclaws[/url]":26moqilf]So much glare in the Horizon Zero Dawn demo they showcased..

Were you watching it on something that actually got the HDR signal, on a device that can display HDR? My experience with HDR is it's extremely noticeable when you can see it, but oftentimes people watch it on a non-HDR screen, or they're using an HDR screen but are watching a compressed-to-non-HDR stream, and think "What's the big deal?".

Same thing happened with HDTV - people would watch examples on their SDTVs and think there was nothing to see.

 

[Sufinsil]

Sandwichman[/url]":rr3n0z1l]Funny how everyone has come away with more questions than answers from this event. No real specs and completely cryptic when it comes to 4K and HDR capabilities. Sony is really acting arrogant and I may just not upgrade my PS4 and go PC instead.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2016/09/ ... imate-faq/