Google to acquire Provo, Utah’s fiber, transform it into Google Fiber

Utah city owes a $39M bond for its iProvo network—that's chump change to Google.

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[Muon]

Are these municipal network operators sharing information with each other? It sounds to me like they're committed to a good idea but a lack of expertise is what's killing these projects, not the actual cost.

 

[DarkSkyForever]

I'd be interested to see if Google would continue to purchase these smaller fiber entities and build them out in order to get to market faster... and if they keep doing that I hope they come to Minnesota soon!

 

[Robot Dinosaur]

Can anyone enlighten me about why the Provo network is so costly and unprofitable? Lack of expertise? Low population density? Predatory practices by incumbent cable? Or just plain government incompetence?

 

[lowtherb1]

Third announced, but it may be up and running as soon or sooner than KC or Austin.

 

[calson33]

I wonder how long before one of the big telcos complain that they weren't offered this deal, and that they would have been totally interested in doing the same thing if only...

 

[carldjennings]

calson33[/url]":1vec62ze]I wonder how long before one of the big telcos complain that they weren't offered this deal, and that they would have been totally interested in doing the same thing if only...

No one is obligated to offer the big telcos anything. Sucks to be them lol

 

[DrigJ]

Well, crap. Once again news of other people getting Google Fiber and it's not me.

 

[lowtherb1]

Robot Dinosaur:

Provo, being in Utah, doesn't like the government running things like utilities so they hired a private company, Veracity, to manage the network. Veracity did the mismanagement. But many other cities along the Wasatch front here in Utah started another fiber network, Utopia, which is also being mismanaged. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to work out a similar deal with Google.

 

[Shannara]

Until they tackle Alaska's capital, this is all .. blah blah blah....unfortunate.

 

[racca]

lowtherb1[/url]":1l4mgg01]Robot Dinosaur:

Provo, being in Utah, doesn't like the government running things like utilities so they hired a private company, Veracity, to manage the network. Veracity did the mismanagement. But many other cities along the Wasatch front here in Utah started another fiber network, Utopia, which is also being mismanaged. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to work out a similar deal with Google.

I'm currently renting in Holladay (suburb of Salt Lake) and if Google takes over Utopia, I will move within their service area immediately.

 

[Pharaun]

I hope that Google runs with this and expands it up to the Salt Lake area. I'd kill for a gigabit connection and a chance to get away from Comcast/Century Link.

 

[axia777]

Go Google GO!

 

[PsionEdge]

I assume paying for service is some large fee on top of this bond payment? Otherwise 8 bucks a month is dirt cheap for internet.

 

[Plasdom]

Dear Google,

You are headquartered in the Bay Area. I realize you provide free wireless internet to parts of Mountain View. However, Comcast has a near monopoly. ATT provides internet access but it is a joke as far as speeds are concerned.

How about showing your 'hood some love and bestowing us with fibre?

 

[racca]

PsionEdge[/url]":26qmwhtv]I assume paying for service is some large fee on top of this bond payment? Otherwise 8 bucks a month is dirt cheap for internet.

I believe so. The bond payment was, if I recall correctly, just to lay the fiber. iProvo hasn't been a particularly popular provider, for whatever reason.

 

[lowtherb1]

Basic service will be free to all residents of Provo for seven years. The eight dollars is what they are and will stil be paying in taxes. Gigabit will be more on top of the eight bucks.

 

[Kia]

PsionEdge[/url]":xif9t7f3]I assume paying for service is some large fee on top of this bond payment? Otherwise 8 bucks a month is dirt cheap for internet.

Yes, $8 is chump change. If they charge $75 for gigabit then one household is paying for 9 other people. If only 1/9th of the population buys this then they've paid their debt and if more then 1/9 (which Google and Cable show is very very likely) they're making a rather nice profit.

 

[Carbon Fibre]

The NSA had nothing to do with this.

 

[lowtherb1]

The problem with iProvo was that they built the backbone but weren't build to the door. Only a quarter of residents were even hooked up.

 

[omegahelix]

I don't know what it has to do with the NSA data center. They're just here for the cheap power. However, it will be nice for BYU and it's 30,000+ students who make up a large portion of Provo residents. Will also be nice for me. I don't live in Provo but my ISP happens to be linked to the iProvo network. (And For the more conspiracy-minded, you can see the massive National Security Agency data center from my house (not that it makes any difference either).

 

[Buxaroo]

Damn google, come to Atlanta! Sorry Provo guys, but DIAF

 

[Tundro Walker]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm all for Google building out fiber, but isn't this sort of how ATT & Verizon got started? Municipalities gave them free access to land to build things out in the hopes of expanding the network for cheaper phone service to citizens. ATT/ Verizon were happy to take advantage of that and look like saviours, but now folks complain about them having a death-grip on everything.

Couldn't this set Google up to do the same thing?

 

[calson33]

Tundro Walker[/url]":s51msycj]The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm all for Google building out fiber, but isn't this sort of how ATT & Verizon got started? Municipalities gave them free access to land to build things out in the hopes of expanding the network for cheaper phone service to citizens. ATT/ Verizon were happy to take advantage of that and look like saviours, but now folks complain about them having a death-grip on everything.

Couldn't this set Google up to do the same thing?

Of course it could.. Except that the incumbents have split the market up nicely so they only appear to compete. Google is providing some real competition, but also it moving into markets where there is already competition.

If they were doing this in places where there was no broadband at all, then your point might be more salient.

 

[Buxaroo]

Tundro Walker[/url]":1nd5zrgr]The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm all for Google building out fiber, but isn't this sort of how ATT & Verizon got started? Municipalities gave them free access to land to build things out in the hopes of expanding the network for cheaper phone service to citizens. ATT/ Verizon were happy to take advantage of that and look like saviours, but now folks complain about them having a death-grip on everything.

Couldn't this set Google up to do the same thing?

Well, by that time, we will hate them like we do Comcast (I know, seems impossible but it could happen ), and someone else will come along and try to one-up them.

Seeing how there is virtually ZERO competition for broadband in this "country of plenty", I am all for google doing this. I just wished they would come to bigger populace centers. I know these are "testing" grounds, but come on, everyone on the planet would sign up for this in their city to get away from the inferior cable companies.

 

[Plasdom]

On the somewhat plus side, comcast recently bumped our speeds by a few MB (for "free"). This is after increasing our bill by $5 per month without letting us know. (autopay)

 

[JGoat]

Robot Dinosaur[/url]":1lp6vwid]Can anyone enlighten me about why the Provo network is so costly and unprofitable? Lack of expertise? Low population density? Predatory practices by incumbent cable? Or just plain government incompetence?

Population density of Provo is higher than that of Kansas City, lower than Austin, but density is only half the story, Provo is much smaller than Austin/KC population-wise. You could have 5,000 people per square mile, but if that's your entire population then you aren't a good candidate.

KC has ~500,000 people, Austin ~800,000, Provo only has ~112,000 people.

 

[mcdonaldd]

If google is the distributor of IP addresses, the ISP, how does it plan on keeping its data 'anonymous?' The claim Google made before was that its collection of IP-associated data was anonymous because they could not know, strictly speaking, the owner of an IP address; only the ISP could know that. But, being the ISP, their collection of IP-associated data cannot be anonymous unless google itself elects to keep such data completely seperate. Data seperation is not one of google's strong points. Google frequently modifies its privacy policy and merges data between services. Google as an ISP gives it an unprecedented level of access to data.

Gigabit is awesome, and I'm glad google is pushing the envelope. Unfortunately, subscribers will only retain privacy rights that google elects to afford them...which isn't many, if any. Here's to google scanning every packet of data you ever decide to send to any device on the internet...not just the packets you elected to send to a google affiliated site. They could even look at the data you send between devices in your own home, if they were connected to their supplied routers.

 

[eas]

lowtherb1[/url]":2exwwt3u]Robot Dinosaur:

Provo, being in Utah, doesn't like the government running things like utilities so they hired a private company, Veracity, to manage the network. Veracity did the mismanagement. But many other cities along the Wasatch front here in Utah started another fiber network, Utopia, which is also being mismanaged. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to work out a similar deal with Google.

Sounds like par for the course for Utah. 20+ years ago my father helped start a non-profit student loan servicing company under the auspices of the state board of regents. It worked, costs were low, it was good for students public and private schools in the state, so, what happened? The banks pressured applied pressure and had it dismembered and parted out to the private sector so they could get in on the federally guaranteed student loan action.

Crony-capitalism is a problem everywhere, but I think that certain cultural factors make it particularly bad in Utah.

 

[KrazyKen]

lowtherb1[/url]":2pqowpg1]Robot Dinosaur:

Provo, being in Utah, doesn't like the government running things like utilities so they hired a private company, Veracity, to manage the network. Veracity did the mismanagement. But many other cities along the Wasatch front here in Utah started another fiber network, Utopia, which is also being mismanaged. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to work out a similar deal with Google.

That would be the greatest news of all time, seeing as how I live in an area covered by Utopia.

 

[eas]

JGoat[/url]":1w94xp0j]

Robot Dinosaur[/url]":1w94xp0j]Can anyone enlighten me about why the Provo network is so costly and unprofitable? Lack of expertise? Low population density? Predatory practices by incumbent cable? Or just plain government incompetence?

Population density of Provo is higher than that of Kansas City, lower than Austin, but density is only half the story, Provo is much smaller than Austin/KC population-wise. You could have 5,000 people per square mile, but if that's your entire population then you aren't a good candidate.

KC has ~500,000 people, Austin ~800,000, Provo only has ~112,000 people.

On the other hand, various small cities (on the scale of Provo) have successfully run municipal broadband networks for years.

 

[designgears]

I live in a Murray, UT, a Utopia service area (the other fiber company in Utah). The $8 a month to pay off the bond is more of a tax to pay for the initial infrastructure. It also cost about $2000 for a home install, which you can pay over 20yrs or include in your mortgage. I rent a house, and the owner had it rolled into his mortgage, and the $45/mo is included in my rent, so I really don't see any of the cost myself. We use SumoFiber.com as our provider and they have GigE available for $250/mo. Seems like a pretty good deal for Google to pick up Utopia too.

 

[paean]

Carbon Fibre[/url]":3r5zv40k]The NSA had nothing to do with this.

It could just be as simple as the kind of people who work at the NSA are also the kind of people who would lobby their local government for a fiber network.

 

[kontos]

Robot Dinosaur[/url]":14s6z8l2]Can anyone enlighten me about why the Provo network is so costly and unprofitable? Lack of expertise? Low population density? Predatory practices by incumbent cable? Or just plain government incompetence?

It's my experience that when an 'Idea Person' is estimating things like the penetration rate for a product, they use rose-tinted glasses. (ie. This stuff is so awesome 106% of the people that we offer it to will buy it)
Also, they get their estimates on costs from the people that are selling the equipment they'll use. This leads to things like 'in the lab, this fiber technology has a range of 1 mile +/- 10%, therefore you need to have repeaters every 1.1 miles'

 

[SirOmega]

Tundro Walker[/url]":15fznory]The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm all for Google building out fiber, but isn't this sort of how ATT & Verizon got started? Municipalities gave them free access to land to build things out in the hopes of expanding the network for cheaper phone service to citizens. ATT/ Verizon were happy to take advantage of that and look like saviours, but now folks complain about them having a death-grip on everything.

Couldn't this set Google up to do the same thing?

This is why

1) Government builds fiber network. Pays for it with bonds.
2) Hires companies to compete on top of the network to provide TV, Internet, phone. Companies pay per bit.
3) Government adds capacity to network as needed. (e.g. upgrading from BPON to GPON to XGPON to whatever comes next)

 

[John Is My Name]

If it isn't bad enough that I live in a piss-poor town like Buffalo, the best Net connection I can get is Verizon DSL or TimeWarner cable. Both less than optimal. I hate you so much right now Google! Bring me fiber!

 

[JGoat]

eas[/url]":2mv318rv]

JGoat[/url]":2mv318rv]

Robot Dinosaur[/url]":2mv318rv]Can anyone enlighten me about why the Provo network is so costly and unprofitable? Lack of expertise? Low population density? Predatory practices by incumbent cable? Or just plain government incompetence?

Population density of Provo is higher than that of Kansas City, lower than Austin, but density is only half the story, Provo is much smaller than Austin/KC population-wise. You could have 5,000 people per square mile, but if that's your entire population then you aren't a good candidate.

KC has ~500,000 people, Austin ~800,000, Provo only has ~112,000 people.

On the other hand, various small cities (on the scale of Provo) have successfully run municipal broadband networks for years.

Are there examples of successful municipal fiber networks? I read something about one in VA, but it was funded by fed stimulus money and grants from some tobacco group, not something that can be modeled elsewhere.

 

[stevenkan]

Google to acquire Provo, Utah’s fiber,

This reads like they acquired the city of Provo as well as acquiring all of Utah's fiber.

So which one is worth more?

I hope the Jazz lose tonight! </OT>

 

[antiocles]

lowtherb1[/url]":218ej04b]The problem with iProvo was that they built the backbone but weren't build to the door. Only a quarter of residents were even hooked up.

Not to mention the 3 times or so I called to find out about getting hooked up after moving into a new place the response was "Sure! We'll get that put on the calendar. Soonest date is about 3 months from now."

Let's see... choice between good internet and no internet for 3 months...

 

[Deleted member 192806]

omegahelix[/url]":19lvzaom]I don't know what it has to do with the NSA data center. They're just here for the cheap power. However, it will be nice for BYU and it's 30,000+ students who make up a large portion of Provo residents. Will also be nice for me. I don't live in Provo but my ISP happens to be linked to the iProvo network. (And For the more conspiracy-minded, you can see the massive National Security Agency data center from my house (not that it makes any difference either).

The NSA gives new meaning to the term "dark fiber".