Elon Musk faces criminal probe in France after ignoring summons in X case

France threatens criminal charges if Musk doesn't appear for questioning.

See full article...

 

[GreyAreaUK]

However disgusting he is, and DOGE, and crazy chainsaw stuff... he doesn't program Grok, nor is he legally-responsible for what Grok (a computer program) spews.

Grok exists because Musk ordered it to exist. It operates the way it does because Musk ordered it so.

Musk is 100% responsible.

The French are entitled to their laws, no matter how stupid they seem to me.

If you want to operate in France, you obey French law.

End of.

 

[Sajuuk]

about as political as sexual orientation brother. pretending that it didn't happen isn't a political stance, it's ignorance disguised as an opinion.

Pretending it didn't happen is explicitly a political stance by people explicitly looking to rehabilitate the Nazis.

 

[Jeff S]

$5 says the Trump admin cites Roman Polanski as a reason not to send him over.

Put that on Kalshi!

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Not a fan of Elon, but if the French were serious they'd be going after the criminals and not the business people behind the host platform.

As above, Grok exists because of Musk. It operates the way it does - including the whole CSAM-on-demand aspect - because of Musk.

When you go after criminals you’re after the guy at the top.

And that’s Musk.

 

[Jeff S]

Not a fan of Elon, but if the French were serious they'd be going after the criminals and not the business people behind the host platform.

This is political and I wouldn't trust the French motives or show up either.

You know what might help them go after the criminals instead of the platform? If the platform and it's owners cooperated with the investigation. And as other have said, Musk doesn't get a free pass if he creates an AI that can be used to violate the laws.

 

[codeycodey]

I love this for him! Thoughts and prayers Elon!

 

[myk.dinis]

Not a fan of Elon, but if the French were serious they'd be going after the criminals and not the business people behind the host platform.

This is political and I wouldn't trust the French motives or show up either.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

Are you peddling a similar product that you'd rather not go to jail for? Are you a hard-core Musk Stan? Are you a hard-core Grok Stan?

Can't figure your angle. CEOs that CHOOSE to allow their product to do X illegal/immoral thing are responsible for that decision. The fact that too few of those pricks EVER pay for the damage they cause is, frankly, disgusting.

So, again I ask, what is your angle?

 

[Tactical Finesse]

Grok exists because Musk ordered it to exist. It operates the way it does because Musk ordered it so.

Musk is 100% responsible.

If you want to operate in France, you obey French law.

End of.

Yup.

Musk can have the Personal Responsibility like he and his "free speech absolutists" say everyone else should have.

 

[EnPeaSea]

In fairness they may have been aiming that comment at Musk.

Maybe they have changed their opinion in 2 years, but their only other comment was fellating Musk.

 

[chateauarusi]

Burden of proof differs in France under Napoleonic law. You are guilty until you prove yourself to be innocent.

What are you talking about? This is absolutely not true.

The distinction between the Napoleonic system and the common-law system in the US and the UK primarily has to do with the evolution of law through the accumulation of binding precedent. In the Napoleonic system, this doesn't happen; the law is the law and the judge applies it as written, full stop. Prior judgments can be considered as advisory but they do not bind. In the common-law system, the meaning and the definitive interpretation of the law considers both the law as written and the body of binding caselaw.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a bedrock principle in France just as much as it is in the US.

 

[Tijger]

Not a fan of Elon, but if the French were serious they'd be going after the criminals and not the business people behind the host platform.

This is political and I wouldn't trust the French motives or show up either.

You know how when governments go after organized crime they always aim for the leader of the gang? Welll, this is the same principle.

 

[infernal666]

This could get interesting... The French have one of the best track records when it comes to deploying the guillotine.

Fingers crossed!!

Not really, Roman Polanski is still walking around free after all.

 

[SomewhereAroundBarstow]

In fairness they may have been aiming that comment at Musk.

If you check the one other post in their history, no they weren't.

 

[stroumel]

Rich people in America are untouchable and above the law. How many people in America that "enjoyed" Epstein's services were even investigated, let alone arrested? None. Apparently there was a huge pedophilia ring in that country but no (American) pedophiles. Corruption has become the norm to such an extend that Americans are constantly surprised when other countries do something about it.

 

[WXW]

Unfortunately, those things are, in fact, political.

What counts as porno? What kind of porno is acceptable? What counts as a deepfake? Is Musk liable for the output of his AI platform? All political questions, because they are legal questions. Holocaust denial, while utterly repugnant, is obviously political from both angles. Are you allowed to deny it? That's political, because it's a matter of what counts as legal speech. Are you a holocaust denier because you're a Nazi and have a vested interest in rehabilitating monsters? Also political for what should be obvious reasons.

Most stuff is actually political below the surface.

Anyway, Musk deserves to get fucked by the law somewhere eventually but I'm not holding out hope I'll ever live to see it.

I think we can agree that "political" must be interpreted in this case as, more or less, some people or political party trying to get a benefit by attacking the beliefs or members/followers of another political party. Simply applying existing laws is not political. Arresting a thief is not political. Getting a speeding ticket is not political.

 

[SomewhereAroundBarstow]

However disgusting he is, and DOGE, and crazy chainsaw stuff... he doesn't program Grok, nor is he legally-responsible for what Grok (a computer program) spews. That's under US law. Clearly the French want to hold this ahole responsible for what a program his corporation provides has as output. The French are entitled to their laws, no matter how stupid they seem to me.

It would be too easy to shoot a big hole in that reasoning by going full Godwin. Not even any fun to be had in doing it.

 

[SomewhereAroundBarstow]

$5 says the Trump admin cites Roman Polanski as a reason not to send him over.

Of course the difference is Polanski has demonstrable talents and skills.

ETA: And in the off-chance anyone is misinterpreting that as support for Polanski, it isn't.

 

[SomewhereAroundBarstow]

Maybe they have changed their opinion in 2 years, but their only other comment was fellating Musk.

Fortunately they spared us a Grok-generated image.

 

[e.halap]

I find the level of compassion in these comments perfectly adequate

 

[Steve-D]

politically charged? issuing child porno and deepfake porno isn't a political topic. neither is holocaust denial. Gets away with it in America because "freedom = money". Hope they do what is necessary, get this grifter out.

You had that backwards:
"money = freedom".

 

[Sajuuk]

I think we can agree that "political" must be interpreted in this case as, more or less, some people or political party trying to get a benefit by attacking the beliefs or members/followers of another political party. Simply applying existing laws is not political. Arresting a thief is not political. Getting a speeding ticket is not political.

And who decides how existing laws are applied?

If applying the law wasn't political, my president wouldn't an insurrectionist.

 

[pauleyc]

Actually, yes, several European countries explicitly ban anything Nazi related. You could say that's political.

Or, alternatively, you could say it's just common sense to ban anything related to Nazis. Considering what they did to this continent (and the world) it's the least we can do.

At this point I can only say: yes, burn everything Musk-related to the ground and salt the ashes. This man is a virus.

 

[Tijger]

And who decides how existing laws are applied?

If applying the law wasn't political, my president wouldn't an insurrectionist.

In Brazil the insurrectionist was convicted. Not all countries are the US and allow politics into applying the law.

 

[Ninon]

about as political as sexual orientation brother. pretending that it didn't happen isn't a political stance, it's ignorance disguised as an opinion.

Not sure if I get you but Europe isn’t banning teaching history, they are banning nazi propaganda.

(In case you were assimilating forbidding sale of nazi flags with acting as if the horrors of nazism didn’t happen.)

It won’t stop the extreme right, but it removes one of their gathering icons from public space. It underlines that no we don’t find nazism acceptable, it’s not just another valid opinion. It can be an opinion, but it’s not accepted in our society. In Europe free speech isn’t absolute; and that’s perfectly fine for me.

 

[Tijger]

Elon doesn’t own tesla, SpaceX, Starlink, etc, they all have large numbers of other shareholders. Punishing them for decisions he made at another business is the definition of injustice,, because justice requires punishing the guilty, not the innocent.

The secondary question here is if regulations differ between two countries, does one country have the right to impose their versions on the other by prosecuting the other countries business leaders?

Uh....the US just kidnapped a head of State to try him for offenses he ostensibly committed in another country.

 

[Sajuuk]

Elon doesn’t exclusively own tesla, SpaceX, Starlink, etc, they all have large numbers of other shareholders. Punishing them for decisions he made at another business is the definition of injustice, because justice requires punishing the guilty, not the innocent.

The secondary question here is if regulations differ between two countries, does one country have the right to impose their versions on the other by prosecuting the other countries business leaders?

Does Elon Musk conduct business in France?

Oh, cool, then his businesses are subject to French law.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

The question here is whether a business (such as X) that provides a platform for content producers in one country (the U.S.) is subject to increasingly intolerant laws in other countries (in this case, France).

And the answer is ‘yes’.

If you want to operate a business in a country then you are subject to that country’s laws.

 

[Uragan]

This is a disappointing article from Ars--it more-or-less regurgitates the French government press release.

The question here is whether a business (such as X) that provides a platform for content producers in one country (the U.S.) is subject to increasingly intolerant laws in other countries (in this case, France). There is a similar legal issue at play currently between 4Chan and a U.K. agency named OFCOM (search for it on X--the 4Chan lawyer [@prestonjbyrne] is insightful as well as hilarious).

For a much more detailed, nuanced take on the question, here's a link to non-paywalled article in the WSJ:
https://www.wsj.com/tech/elon-musk-summoned-to-france-to-face-criminal-charges-589acd6c?st=fYa15Q&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

If xAI and other companies want to operate and provide a service in jurisdictions that have stricter laws than the US, they have to abide by the laws in those jurisdictions.

 

[Tinkiewinkle]

If xAI and other companies want to operate and provide a service in jurisdictions that have stricter laws than the US, they have to abide by the laws in those jurisdictions.

You cant apply laws to rich people, they suffer from affluenza! It’s not their fault! /s

 

[Mrbonk]

Lemme just check my handy chart. Nope, he's safe.

View attachment 134669

Don't forget to do one for The King's anchor babies and anchor wife.

 

[Sajuuk]

Again, they aren’t “his” businesses.

If France issues a warrant for a pedophile, is it just to arrest the pedophiles business partner? Their co-worker? Their wife?

Banning businesses because musk owns shares in them or works in them, because of crimes committed by Musk or a totally different business musk actually owns outright, can’t be just by any meaning of the word.

The office of Paris public prosecutor Laure Beccuau announced the move in a press release yesterday. The office said it asked investigating judges to charge X Corp., xAI, Musk, and Yaccarino “by summoning them for this purpose and to gather their comments, or, in the event of non-compliance, by issuing a warrant equivalent to an indictment,” Le Monde reported.

Who's wife is being arrested, exactly?