Elon Musk built a “submarine” to rescue Thailand kids—here’s what it looks like

Device likely won't be needed but Musk is sending it to Thailand just in case.

Read the whole story

 

[zed_crash]

I can appreciate what Musk is doing, but wow! If I was one of those kids, you'd have a hard time convincing me to climb in that thing. I'm not terribly claustrophobic. but something like that might reach the tipping point for me.

Perhaps the ordeal of being in a dark cave with diminishing oxygen and the prospect of many more of the same might change my mind.

after more than a week in that narrow cave, most of those in the dark without any food?
you would jump in it with both feets, assured.

 

[sjl]

I haven't followed this whole story so maybe it has already been explained out but... if the problem is visibility and strong currents, and some divers *did* manage to get to their destination, wouldn't a simple rope pulled from entrance to bus do the trick? it could then be used to pull diving equipment to the kids, and after they wear them and attach themselves to the rope they just have to pull on it at their own pace until they emerge at the other end.

That only works if it's a clear, straight path through from start to finish.

It isn't. There are climbs and drops, ups and downs, including a few points where people have to crawl in order to get through. The rope would snag on something and break.

They have a guide rope, for sure - that's basic, fundamental equipment for cave diving. But that's for use to help you find your way, not as something that will pull you through the cave with minimal effort on your part.

 

[BrangdonJ]

The second rescue attempt started at 4am GMT. Apparently another four will be making the move (not three as said earlier), expected to start emerging around 1pm.

That would leave five people, one of them an adult. Maybe all five will come out tomorrow.

 

[mhalpern]

Why not just update one of the other stories?

Edit: I'm not sure why I'm fed up with Musk's plans but I am. Sorry.

I understand. He has a history of all talk and no/late results. All the additional stories just feeds the hype. Just don't click the story, it's not worth the stress.

Musk has a history of promising big things in an impossibly short timeframe and then delivering them in a possibly short timeframe.

Sure, his initial wildly optimistic estimates are missed, but he delivers— on very risky and complex projects. Maybe not every time, but most of the time.

Most people don’t deliver at all on much smaller stuff.

Typical adjustment is 2 years, the only two that I know of that were more late are CCP (external factors) and FH (F9 wasn't finished developing)

 

[Itsybitsy]

Can’t comment with any authority on the engineering aspect, however:
- if the kids are wearing full face masks, so they can breathe normally, why put them inside a claustrophobic tube. What’s the advantage?
- can the health of the kids be monitored inside the tube? What if they pass out, is there some kind of alarm?
- it was suggested that the kids be tranquilized...again, who monitors their situation inside the tube?

I’m all for anyone putting their talents and resources to good use but this seems like over-engineering mixed with a publicity stunt and addressing the mental and physical well-being of those kids as tertiary.

 

[ivekadi]

Can you make cylindrical tube (similar to the pod made in SpaceX) that bends at least at one point (say... up to 30degrees, in at least 1 axis), and still maintain internal pressure without leaks? How would one approach it? Seems difficult. (for underwater device)

One potential problem that was mentioned once before in the thread, was that when you enter the pod, you do it feet first (as seen in the few videos posted by Musk), and when the pod is going upwards you are essentially on your head.

This could lead to neck injury if not handled properly. Maybe a "restrictor" (is this a word?) can be placed on the shoulders so that the body weight will be distributed more safely (mainly on the shoulders)

Any thoughts?
As for my previous idea (thanks for the answers) about an autonomous pod, the intent was to be used without any human escort in complete autonomy.

 

[Magic Man]

What is the reasoning for wanting to totally enclose the occupant rather than just their head?

 

[sjl]

Can you make cylindrical tube (similar to the pod made in SpaceX) that bends at least at one point (say... up to 30degrees, in at least 1 axis), and still maintain internal pressure without leaks? How would one approach it? Seems difficult. (for underwater device)

The moment you bring articulation (bending) into a design, you add a degree of complexity. Doing so in a device that's supposed to be submerged and maintain a watertight seal? That's ... not straightforward. (to put it politely). Probably the easiest way to do it would be to have a section made out of rubber or similar so that there's the room to bend it, but that introduces problems with sealing, making sure that the rubber isn't in danger of being punctured, and suchlike.

I don't see it. It's possible, but the challenge in making it work, especially with the limited timeframe... no, I just don't see it being done that way.

 

[SplatMan_DK]

Can you make cylindrical tube (similar to the pod made in SpaceX) that bends at least at one point (say... up to 30degrees, in at least 1 axis), and still maintain internal pressure without leaks? How would one approach it? Seems difficult. (for underwater device)

For low-pressure conditions it shouldn't be that hard for an object this small; though joints are generally something to avoid. They not only leak, they are harder to make and can fail. The quick answer is: It's possible, but vastly better to avoid it. At higher pressure it gets much more complex and close to "impossible" territory.

Not sure it's needed either. People keep insisting in this thread that the cave is "twisting and turning", but nobody has any first-hand knowledge. They're just speculating and pulling stuff out of their a** to provide an opposing view. I find it hard to believe that the engineers who came up with this solution have not considered twists and turns. They have had people on site and talked to divers - yet people act like they just conjured up this cylinder at random with no pre-knowledge of the actual route. That's just silly. No serious engineer would work on the cylinder without asking "will this fit through the route", and they all know and understand the mathematics involved.

One potential problem that was mentioned once before in the thread, was that when you enter the pod, you do it feet first (as seen in the few videos posted by Musk), and when the pod is going upwards you are essentially on your head.

This could lead to neck injury if not handled properly. Maybe a "restrictor" (is this a word?) can be placed on the shoulders so that the body weight will be distributed more safely (mainly on the shoulders)

Any thoughts?
As for my previous idea (thanks for the answers) about an autonomous pod, the intent was to be used without any human escort in complete autonomy.

Being upside down for a small amount of time is not a major problem. Especially not if the alternative is death by drowning or hypoxia. The pod will be moving slowly. Strap a bicycle helmet on the occupant and call it a day.


---
edit:fixed quotes

 

[SplatMan_DK]

This fellow is such an egotistical idiot. If he really had any brains, he would have wired them some cash to buy more air tanks for the divers.

Funny. That's my impression of you as well, after reading your post... Did you come here just to shit on people, or do you have something relevant and interesting to add to the discussion?

 

[wk_]

Regarding the rescue operation itself - they did not name the evacuated children yet, they did not allow them to see their parents... I'm afraid that despite the all the effort, the operation is not going 100% smoothly, but they have to put the brave face because of the parents.

 

[JonathanSmith]

So many people asking about full face masks...

Well, as somebody who's used full-face respirators, full-face SCBAs, and SCUBA dives I feel like I'm qualified to give my two cents on why that's worrying.


They leak. They especially leak if you don't have a good chance to get them fitted before hand. Now, they're also easy enough to clear, if you know how and have some presence of mind - and free hands. Again, that all depends on the health and panic level of the kids. If they're alert and aware? No problem, go for it. If they're doped up and duct taped to a spine board? Yeah, that's probably not going to go super well.

Again as most of the sane people in this thread seem to agree, that doesn't necessarily make the tube a good idea, but it explains why it's even being considered.

 

[Davidoff]

Call me a cynic but it feels a lot like Musk has jumped on this as a way to undo some of the media-perception damage his recent Tesla-related tantrum/media-feud has done.

You must not be an engineer. When an engineer sees a problem they can't help thinking of ways to solve it. Elon Musk just has the means to make his ideas come true and the inspiration to come up with successful ones. Let's not be cynical about a person trying to help in a really bad situation.

Signed, an engineer not an Elon fan boy.

I'm an Engineer (in three specialties, actually), and while I agree with the urge to solve problems I also do know that achievements are usually down to teams of engineers and rarely down to a single person, and a lot less so if that single person is the CEO.

While I can see that especially Americans need their heroes, I despise personal cults that certain 'leaders' have built up around them. Musk is such a leader.

Let's get real. Musk is no genius, he was born into a quite wealthy family and managed to become rich by riding the dotcom bubble and jumping off at the right time. He's a smart investor, and seems to be a dreamer and smooth talker, and unlike other dreamers his money allowed him the luxury to hire really smart people which could make Tesla and SpaceX a reality. But it's them who do the clever stuff, while the press harps on "Musk built...".

I find the fact that he jumped on the rescue activities a bit odd. If the interest is in helping the recue then then the thing to do is engaging with the local authorities on-site and sending personal and material to help, not a public announcement. I also have to say that for the reputation this guy has here on Ars, the resulting 'submarine' doesn't suggest that a lot of thought went into the actual rescue situation.

 

[pepoluan]

He did interfere with the rescue, he did it by wasting time of the Thai authority and the experts advising them who were flat out telling the Musk people there that the proposed sub would not work for this purpose use. Instead, after being told by his people on the ground that the sub as proposed would likely not work Musk instructed his people to go into discussions with the Thai authority and the experts advising them to use the sub and all they needed was input from them of refining the design, that wasted almost two days of valuable time hounding the Thai authority and the experts advising them and that was interference.

Please provide citations for any of this. You consistently failed to back up these claims with any evidence in the previous thread.

BuckyJoe is a fanfiction author. He doesn't need any citation, he'll make things up as he go.

 

[SplatMan_DK]

I'm an Engineer (in three specialties, actually), and while I agree with the urge to solve problems I also do know that achievements are usually down to teams of engineers and rarely down to a single person, and a lot less so if that single person is the CEO.

Not that I disagree as such, but you have to accept that Musk is not your run of the mill CEO. He has a degree in physics, and holds several honorary doctorates in engineering.

It's always fun to mock the white-collar manager-types in an engineering debate. Most people see them as the moronic manager in Dilbert. But Musk hardly fits that category, having founded several engineering companies and having relevant education.

Let's get real. Musk is no genius, he was born into a quite wealthy family and managed to become rich by riding the dotcom bubble and jumping off at the right time.

That is factually incorrect. He earned his first fortune by selling his software company Zip2 to Compaq. He founded the company with his brother, and by accounts they worked their asses off, and built a company from scratch before selling it.

I find the fact that he jumped on the rescue activities a bit odd. If the interest is in helping the recue then then the thing to do is engaging with the local authorities on-site and sending personal and material to help, not a public announcement. I also have to say that for the reputation this guy has here on Ars, the resulting 'submarine' doesn't suggest that a lot of thought went into the actual rescue situation.

First of all he didn't "jumped on the rescue". He was invited - a fact that seems to be totally lost in the chaos. He didn't just show up on site, and starting spewing nonsense. Someone asked if he had ideas or something to contribute. He decided the answer was "yes".

Second, he is a farther and an engineer. Perhaps he simply has empathy and wants to help? As a parent with an interest in tech, I would have done the same damn thing if I had the means and opportunity. In fact I discussed similar concepts with friends, a few days before Musk was part of the equation. However, reading how incredibly ungrateful people are, I think that if I ever found myself in a position to do actually something like this, I would try to stay anonymous. Because ... damn ... you guys are just so incredibly poisonous. It's really quite disheartening.

 

[Statistical]

Ars: Can you please use more accurate headlines in the future? SpaceX built the rescue capsule. Sometimes a story will be about something Elon Musk said in which case the headline is accurately that "Musk claims XYZ" but if it involves the actions of a significant number of people inside a company (either Tesla or SpaceX) is just bad journalism to attribute it to Elon Musk.

 

[Beddict]

Call me a cynic but it feels a lot like Musk has jumped on this as a way to undo some of the media-perception damage his recent Tesla-related tantrum/media-feud has done.

You must not be an engineer. When an engineer sees a problem they can't help thinking of ways to solve it. Elon Musk just has the means to make his ideas come true and the inspiration to come up with successful ones. Let's not be cynical about a person trying to help in a really bad situation.

Signed, an engineer not an Elon fan boy.

I'm an Engineer (in three specialties, actually), and while I agree with the urge to solve problems I also do know that achievements are usually down to teams of engineers and rarely down to a single person, and a lot less so if that single person is the CEO.

While I can see that especially Americans need their heroes, I despise personal cults that certain 'leaders' have built up around them. Musk is such a leader.

Let's get real. Musk is no genius, he was born into a quite wealthy family and managed to become rich by riding the dotcom bubble and jumping off at the right time. He's a smart investor, and seems to be a dreamer and smooth talker, and unlike other dreamers his money allowed him the luxury to hire really smart people which could make Tesla and SpaceX a reality. But it's them who do the clever stuff, while the press harps on "Musk built...".

I find the fact that he jumped on the rescue activities a bit odd. If the interest is in helping the recue then then the thing to do is engaging with the local authorities on-site and sending personal and material to help, not a public announcement. I also have to say that for the reputation this guy has here on Ars, the resulting 'submarine' doesn't suggest that a lot of thought went into the actual rescue situation.

Smooth talker? You have never heard him speak, have you?

Also

If the interest is in helping the recue then then the thing to do is engaging with the local authorities on-site and sending personal and material to help

Isn't that what he did? He sent a team of engineers to the site, they build the "submarine" to spec after consulting with the local authorities and are now shipping the material.

Hopefully it won't be needed by the time it arrives.

 

[JonathanSmith]

Call me a cynic but it feels a lot like Musk has jumped on this as a way to undo some of the media-perception damage his recent Tesla-related tantrum/media-feud has done.

You must not be an engineer. When an engineer sees a problem they can't help thinking of ways to solve it. Elon Musk just has the means to make his ideas come true and the inspiration to come up with successful ones. Let's not be cynical about a person trying to help in a really bad situation.

Signed, an engineer not an Elon fan boy.

I'm an Engineer (in three specialties, actually), and while I agree with the urge to solve problems I also do know that achievements are usually down to teams of engineers and rarely down to a single person, and a lot less so if that single person is the CEO.

While I can see that especially Americans need their heroes, I despise personal cults that certain 'leaders' have built up around them. Musk is such a leader.

Let's get real. Musk is no genius, he was born into a quite wealthy family and managed to become rich by riding the dotcom bubble and jumping off at the right time. He's a smart investor, and seems to be a dreamer and smooth talker, and unlike other dreamers his money allowed him the luxury to hire really smart people which could make Tesla and SpaceX a reality. But it's them who do the clever stuff, while the press harps on "Musk built...".

I find the fact that he jumped on the rescue activities a bit odd. If the interest is in helping the recue then then the thing to do is engaging with the local authorities on-site and sending personal and material to help, not a public announcement. I also have to say that for the reputation this guy has here on Ars, the resulting 'submarine' doesn't suggest that a lot of thought went into the actual rescue situation.

Smooth talker? You have never heard him speak, have you?

Seriously. If he's not getting by on the weight of his knowledge and technical skill, it must be black magic. It sure as hell isn't his public speaking ability.

 

[Deltigar]

Right, that's why ballast tanks exist in submarines. If I know that, not having any engineering background in this sort of thing, I'm sure the ones actually working on this are aware of it.

As someone with actual experience on submarines, I can confirm that they do indeed have ballast tanks. But yes, rocks will do just find in this case. Just be sure they aren't loose in the compartment so they don't injure the child.

 

[SplatMan_DK]

Right, that's why ballast tanks exist in submarines. If I know that, not having any engineering background in this sort of thing, I'm sure the ones actually working on this are aware of it.

As someone with actual experience on submarines, I can confirm that they do indeed have ballast tanks. But yes, rocks will do just find in this case. Just be sure they aren't loose in the compartment so they don't injure the child.

By accounts they're planning to strap regular diving weights on the outside, to achieve natural buoyancy. It's simpler, doesn't easily break, and can be removed quickly if necessary.

 

[vitalisk]

I look up to Elon Musk and we can't fault anyone for being pro-active however are they aware that an experienced Thai Seal team diver died while on a oxygen supply delivery mission?

It is pitch black and it takes the best diver 6 hours to complete the journey (NY times). Now add extremely dangerous chock points of 38cm and a huge and long unfamiliar device (pod) with 31cm circumference to manoeuvre. What if you are forced to bend at those chock points? NY times report that divers have to take off their oxygen tanks to pass through.

Time is another important factor which this device actually aggravates not just because it adds difficulty in delivering and bringing it back but because it can only rescue a single child at a time which might take 18 hours for a return journey. Thai authorities are concerned about potential rain which is the reason they were in such a hurry to start evacuation. Yesterday they started the rescue mission and as of now 7 children have safely exited the cave.

Don't get me wrong, having a working prototype in such a short time is beyond awesome but we are talking about saving children lives within extremely space and time constraints.

 

[groundhog6]

Good news, Eight rescued without a Muskmarine contraption. They will all be out before it gets there.

 

[Beddict]

Ars: Can you please use more accurate headlines in the future? SpaceX built the rescue capsule. Sometimes a story will be about something Elon Musk said in which case the headline is accurately that "Musk claims XYZ" but if it involves the actions of a significant number of people inside a company (either Tesla or SpaceX) is just bad journalism to attribute it to Elon Musk.

"A small team of specialists from SpaceX and Boring came together under the direction of Elon Musk to build a subma...." is a long headline, and here at ars, on a topic already covered, I think it is fair to expect people to be able to make that inference when reading it.

 

[SplatMan_DK]

Good news, Eight rescued without a Muskmarine contraption. They will all be out before it gets there.

I hope you are right. Having said that, it's likely they took the most fit boys out first, and that the remaining ones are in worse condition. We'll see how it goes.

 

[twinstronglord]

I'm not about to read through 10 pages of comments. I'm sure I'm just echoing here when I say this.

I'll take my chances with a quick tutorial and making the swim myself rather than get in that thing.

Edit: That said, Musk's heart is in the right place and shows that he can get something done quickly despite his trouble with the familiar practice of automobile mass production.

 

[BulkyZ]

Why not just update one of the other stories?

Edit: I'm not sure why I'm fed up with Musk's plans but I am. Sorry.

Why not not click on the article?

Edit: I'm not sure why I'm fed up with people shitting on someone who has done more with their life than they will ever do with theirs but I am. Sorry.

But it's OK if it's Trump.

 

[CraigJ ✅]

Why not just update one of the other stories?

Edit: I'm not sure why I'm fed up with Musk's plans but I am. Sorry.

I understand. He has a history of all talk and no/late results. All the additional stories just feeds the hype. Just don't click the story, it's not worth the stress.

Frequently late, sure. Complex engineering new processes, etc are often/usually late. So what?

Name one thing he hasn't delivered that he said he would.

Put up or shut up troll.

I'll take your downvotes and lack or answer as a confirmation that you are, in fact, an ignorant troll. The whole talking out of your ass thing is a neat trick - maybe you should try to monetize that?

 

[SplatMan_DK]

I'm not about to read through 10 pages of comments. I'm sure I'm just echoing here when I say this.

I'll take my chances with a quick tutorial and making the swim myself rather than get in that thing.

Good for you. Also. yes, you clearly haven't read the comments, or you would have a more nuanced view.

In other words: you simply ignore the accumulated knowledge of this thread and proceed to announce your presumptions, which are somewhat flawed (according to several experienced cave divers, whom you have deliberately chosen to ignore.

 

[Statistical]

Ars: Can you please use more accurate headlines in the future? SpaceX built the rescue capsule. Sometimes a story will be about something Elon Musk said in which case the headline is accurately that "Musk claims XYZ" but if it involves the actions of a significant number of people inside a company (either Tesla or SpaceX) is just bad journalism to attribute it to Elon Musk.

"A small team of specialists from SpaceX and Boring came together under the direction of Elon Musk to build a subma...." is a long headline, and here at ars, on a topic already covered, I think it is fair to expect people to be able to make that inference when reading it.

It had nothing to do with Boring.

He ordered SpaceX engineers to begin building the device, saying that it could be ready by the end of the day on Saturday.

This headline would be smaller and more accurate that what was used.

"SpaceX built a 'submarine' to rescue Thailand kids—here’s what it looks like"

Of course including Elon Musk in the headline brings out the Musk hate brigade the clicks it brings. If SpaceX does something say SpaceX. If Telsa does something say Tesla. It is a pretty simply and basic journalistic concept.

 

[CraigJ ✅]

Call me a cynic but it feels a lot like Musk has jumped on this as a way to undo some of the media-perception damage his recent Tesla-related tantrum/media-feud has done.

You must not be an engineer. When an engineer sees a problem they can't help thinking of ways to solve it. Elon Musk just has the means to make his ideas come true and the inspiration to come up with successful ones. Let's not be cynical about a person trying to help in a really bad situation.

Signed, an engineer not an Elon fan boy.

I'm an Engineer (in three specialties, actually), and while I agree with the urge to solve problems I also do know that achievements are usually down to teams of engineers and rarely down to a single person, and a lot less so if that single person is the CEO.

While I can see that especially Americans need their heroes, I despise personal cults that certain 'leaders' have built up around them. Musk is such a leader.

Let's get real. Musk is no genius, he was born into a quite wealthy family and managed to become rich by riding the dotcom bubble and jumping off at the right time. He's a smart investor, and seems to be a dreamer and smooth talker, and unlike other dreamers his money allowed him the luxury to hire really smart people which could make Tesla and SpaceX a reality. But it's them who do the clever stuff, while the press harps on "Musk built...".

I find the fact that he jumped on the rescue activities a bit odd. If the interest is in helping the recue then then the thing to do is engaging with the local authorities on-site and sending personal and material to help, not a public announcement. I also have to say that for the reputation this guy has here on Ars, the resulting 'submarine' doesn't suggest that a lot of thought went into the actual rescue situation.

Oh, snowflake, do you have engineering envy?

I'm sure you realize that Musk is one of the actual engineers at SpaceX? No?

FYI appeals to authority don't mean shit round these parts.

 

[SplatMan_DK]

Ars: Can you please use more accurate headlines in the future? SpaceX built the rescue capsule. Sometimes a story will be about something Elon Musk said in which case the headline is accurately that "Musk claims XYZ" but if it involves the actions of a significant number of people inside a company (either Tesla or SpaceX) is just bad journalism to attribute it to Elon Musk.

"A small team of specialists from SpaceX and Boring came together under the direction of Elon Musk to build a subma...." is a long headline, and here at ars, on a topic already covered, I think it is fair to expect people to be able to make that inference when reading it.

It had nothing to do with Boring.

That is factually incorrect. According to Elon musk, who said this (quite literally):

"SpaceX & Boring Co engineers headed to Thailand tomorrow to see if we can be helpful to govt. There are probably many complexities that are hard to appreciate without being there in person."

He ordered SpaceX engineers to begin building the device, saying that it could be ready by the end of the day on Saturday.

This headline would be smaller and more accurate that what was used.

"SpaceX built a 'submarine' to rescue Thailand kids—here’s what it looks like"

Of course including Elon Musk in the headline brings out the Musk hate brigade the clicks it brings. If SpaceX does something say SpaceX. If Telsa does something say Tesla. It is a pretty simply and basic journalistic concept.

Elon Musk was asked, personally, if he had something to contribute. He used his resources from both SpaceX and Boring, and by all accounts he is the main driver and controller of this little project. Do you have any direct evidence to the contrary? If so, please share.

 

[numerobis]

Ars: Can you please use more accurate headlines in the future? SpaceX built the rescue capsule. Sometimes a story will be about something Elon Musk said in which case the headline is accurately that "Musk claims XYZ" but if it involves the actions of a significant number of people inside a company (either Tesla or SpaceX) is just bad journalism to attribute it to Elon Musk.

"A small team of specialists from SpaceX and Boring came together under the direction of Elon Musk to build a subma...." is a long headline, and here at ars, on a topic already covered, I think it is fair to expect people to be able to make that inference when reading it.

It had nothing to do with Boring.

He ordered SpaceX engineers to begin building the device, saying that it could be ready by the end of the day on Saturday.

This headline would be smaller and more accurate that what was used.

"SpaceX built a 'submarine' to rescue Thailand kids—here’s what it looks like"

Of course including Elon Musk in the headline brings out the Musk hate brigade the clicks it brings. If SpaceX does something say SpaceX. If Telsa does something say Tesla. It is a pretty simply and basic journalistic concept.

Musk talked about sending a crew from Boring as well with ground-penetrating radar gear, before the back-passage escape plan was ditched.

 

[Statistical]

That is factually incorrect. According to Elon musk, who said this (quite literally):

"SpaceX & Boring Co engineers headed to Thailand tomorrow to see if we can be helpful to govt. There are probably many complexities that are hard to appreciate without being there in person."

Two different plans. Boring was sent there to look for an alternate method out and to explore the possibility of a drilling rescue. None of that had anything to do with this article. Separate from that SpaceX built a submarine. There was absolutely no reason to put Elon Musk in the headline anymore than one would use these headlines:

"Elon Musk builds 40,000 Tesla Model 3s"
"Elon Musk lands Falcon 9 rocket on a barge"
"Elon Musk puts a Tesla Roadster into orbit with a successful Falcon Heavy launch"

Even if one felt compelled (mostly for clicks) to put Elon's name in the headline it could be done accurately. I mean when such journalistic bastions as the Verge and Tech Radar have more accurate headlines it is sad:
"Elon Musk wants SpaceX to build a kid-sized submarine for Thailand ..."
"Elon Musk says SpaceX is building a 'kid-sized submarine' to rescue ..."

 

[thesixgoddess]

For people bashing Musk, I can tell you as someone who wrote prototype software for professionals doing exploratory stuff that while most of the experts frowned on the ability of software to save a project, they really did appreciate having that tool readily available just in case they needed it.

Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't, it's the same thing here. It's better to have an option than no option. I must also say that the likelihood in case this thing gets used that it will fail is pretty high and should not be the first choice

 

[groundhog6]

Good news, Eight rescued without a Muskmarine contraption. They will all be out before it gets there.

I hope you are right. Having said that, it's likely they took the most fit boys out first, and that the remaining ones are in worse condition. We'll see how it goes.

It's been reported that they took the worst off first.

 

[Davidoff]

I'm an Engineer (in three specialties, actually), and while I agree with the urge to solve problems I also do know that achievements are usually down to teams of engineers and rarely down to a single person, and a lot less so if that single person is the CEO.

Not that I disagree as such, but you have to accept that Musk is not your run of the mill CEO. He has a degree in physics, and holds several honorary doctorates in engineering.

According to his Wikipedia profile he's got an Bachelor in Physics as well as Economics. That's an achievement of course but hardly makes one competent in aerospace or car engineering.

Honorary doctorates aren't worth the paper they're written on, and usually just serve for an academic institution to get something of the glamor from the person it's bestowed upon.

It's always fun to mock the white-collar manager-types in an engineering debate. Most people see them as the moronic manager in Dilbert. But Musk hardly fits that category, having founded several engineering companies and having relevant education.

I'm not suggesting he's the Dilbert type of manager, but he's hardly the genius a lot of people make him out to be. He's a very successful entrepreneur with a large ego who uses his money to hire people to build his dreams. The only thing that makes this a very rare combination is the presence of a large amount of money.

Let's get real. Musk is no genius, he was born into a quite wealthy family and managed to become rich by riding the dotcom bubble and jumping off at the right time.

That is factually incorrect. He earned his first fortune by selling his software company Zip2 to Compaq. He founded the company with his brother, and by accounts they worked their asses off, and built a company from scratch before selling it.

Zip2 was his first but clearly the $22 mil weren't his last endeavor. Paypal netted him a lot more than Zip2.

I have no idea if the Musks really 'worked their asses off' but there actually were three founders, the third being Greg Kuri. The company was founded with money from Angel investors, so it's not that Musk and his brother built it up from scratch all on their own. There's also no record that Elon Musk had much of an engineering position in that company.

I find the fact that he jumped on the rescue activities a bit odd. If the interest is in helping the recue then then the thing to do is engaging with the local authorities on-site and sending personal and material to help, not a public announcement. I also have to say that for the reputation this guy has here on Ars, the resulting 'submarine' doesn't suggest that a lot of thought went into the actual rescue situation.

First of all he didn't "jumped on the rescue". He was invited - a fact that seems to be totally lost in the chaos. He didn't just show up on site, and starting spewing nonsense. Someone asked if he had ideas or something to contribute. He decided the answer was "yes".

So who did "invite" him? I doubt the Thai authorities which were busy getting the boys out did "invite" Musk to publicly deliberate on "ssolutions" for the rescue?

Second, he is a farther and an engineer. Perhaps he simply has empathy and wants to help?

COuld be, but yet he decided for the PR stunt.

As a parent with an interest in tech, I would have done the same damn thing if I had the means and opportunity. In fact I discussed similar concepts with friends, a few days before Musk was part of the equation. However, reading how incredibly ungrateful people are, I think that if I ever found myself in a position to do actually something like this, I would try to stay anonymous. Because ... damn ... you guys are just so incredibly poisonous. It's really quite disheartening.

I'm a father as well as an engineer, and if I could I'd gladly helped to get these boys out. I wouldn't need public attention to do that.

Partly through my military service I can say that I've the privilege of knowing some highly curageous people who in somewhat similar situations (mostly disaster zones) used to and still do offer help and manage to save dozens of lives. You wouldn't find their names in any news article because they just engage with the local authorities and co-ordinate their rescue activities with them to save lives. No press conferences, no Twitter, no publicity. *These* are true heroes.

If Musk really wanted to help he'd just have to engage directly with the Thai authorities and get things done. Instead he spent time on Twitter, deliberating over (non-)solutions to a tagedy where time is of upmost importance. And the resulting "submarine", besides being completely useless for the situation at hand, is hardly an engineering marvel. This isn't a serious rescue effort, it's a PR stunt to associate the name Elon Musk with the rescue efforts (and I'm sure in the years to come some people will say that Musk saved those boys).

I'm sure the Thai government had lots of more serious help offers, but you won't find out because those that really want to help usually don't seek the limelight.

Suggesting Musk is a hero is a slap in the face of every of those who actually go to extremes to help saving lives.