Archaeologists may have found the grave of the legendary “fourth musketeer”

This will not be turning up in the church rummage sale.

See full article...

 

[michaeltherobot]

Great article.

Fascinating that they don't yet know the gender of the person buried. In most stories about exhumed humans they are quick to point out based on something like hip shape. I guess it's not as obvious as I had assumed.

Also, shame on me for not knowing the 3 musketeers were based on a real military unit!

 

[BL38]

"D’Artagnan became their captain-lieutenant in 1667, and his command would very briefly include a young Marquis de Lafayette, who later went on to do some other stuff."
Check your dates. Maybe a grand-grand father. The Lafayette of American Independence fame lived about one century later.

 

[Techlight]

"It is only the dead who do not return" - until they do. Fortunately not as a zombie in this case (or it would have been a Beth Mole article instead).

I read they are not sure that the "relatives" they will compare to are known relatives as the whole family tree is not a certainty all the way to today. So if it's a match it will be clear, if not, we still don't know if it may be him or not...

 

[Thue]

eventually played by both Gene Kelly and future Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy

I kinda wish the article had just written this with a straight face and without inline context. Just writing

eventually played by Gene Kelly and Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

would have been so much funnier.

 

[Sarty]

“I’m a scientist, but my expectations are high,” Wim Djikman, archaeologist and curator for the city of Maastricht, who excavated the skeleton, told the BBC. “I’ve already been researching d’Artagnan’s grave for 28 years. This could be the highlight of my career.”

The world could use more quotes and more feelings like this. It put a smile on my face, anyway.

 

[cosmotose]

Great article.

Fascinating that they don't yet know the gender of the person buried. In most stories about exhumed humans they are quick to point out based on something like hip shape. I guess it's not as obvious as I had assumed.

Also, shame on me for not knowing the 3 musketeers were based on a real military unit!

I was also surprised by the gender uncertainty! Perhaps we are still early in the typical archeological discovery/analysis timeline?

Unrelated, its intriguing to me that so much was documented and known about d’Artagnan and his likely whereabouts without anyone finding him till now... the fact that we waited for a Priest's permission to do Tile Repairs in 2026 is just mind boggling and reassuring to me

 

[Ragnarredbeard]

"It is only the dead who do not return" - until they do. Fortunately not as a zombie in this case (or it would have been a Beth Mole article instead).

I read they are not sure that the "relatives" they will compare to are known relatives as the whole family tree is not a certainty all the way to today. So if it's a match it will be clear, if not, we still don't know if it may be him or not...

If they use multiple samples, the DNA picture will become clearer.

 

[Ragnarredbeard]

I was also surprised by the gender uncertainty! Perhaps we are still early in the typical archeological discovery/analysis timeline?

Unrelated, its intriguing to me that so much was documented and known about d’Artagnan and his likely whereabouts without anyone finding him till now... the fact that we waited for a Priest's permission to do Tile Repairs in 2026 is just mind boggling and reassuring to me

Churches are often a bit reluctant to run around digging up things that are inside the chapel. Go figure.

 

[om1]

Unrelated, its intriguing to me that so much was documented and known about d’Artagnan and his likely whereabouts without anyone finding him till now... the fact that we waited for a Priest's permission to do Tile Repairs in 2026 is just mind boggling and reassuring to me

To me it sounds perfectly normal the owner/caretaker of a historic building is reluctant to authorize disturbing it based on rumors only.

 

[klnn]

Marquis de Lafayette, who later went on to do some other stuff.

Wait so he wrote a rap song 250y ago? /s
would be nice if you actually gave a proper link, not everyone knows US history or wants to listen to a musical.

if someone wants to learn who he actually is : https://about.lafayette.edu/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Lafayette

 

[JoetheWalrus]

Wait so he wrote a rap song 250y ago? /s
would be nice if you actually gave a proper link, not everyone knows US history or wants to listen to a musical.

if someone wants to learn who he actually is : https://about.lafayette.edu/

Not to mention getting the entire wrong La Fayette by about 100 years.

I hope you're not pulling a Chalamet though on musical theater.

 

[Therblig]

Great article.

Fascinating that they don't yet know the gender of the person buried. In most stories about exhumed humans they are quick to point out based on something like hip shape. I guess it's not as obvious as I had assumed.

Also, shame on me for not knowing the 3 musketeers were based on a real military unit!

They might have inferred the more probable gender, but ordinary caution could lead them not to say anything publicly until there is science behind their pronouncements.

 

[Fred Duck]

The King’s Musketeers are best known to most of us today from Alexandre Dumas’ novel The Three Musketeers.

According to my nephew in the United States, The Three Musketeers are best known as:

The priest of Saints Peter and Paul at the time said he wouldn’t authorize digging up the church floor without more concrete proof.

We see what you did there.

In case anyone is wondering "Why were the Three Musketeers called musketeers when they spent all their time using swords?"

If you don't speak French, le answere.

if someone wants to learn who he actually is : https://about.lafayette.edu/

s
Wait, so he was a college chartered in 1826? /s

would be nice if you actually gave a proper link, not everyone knows US schools or wants to do a campus visit.

if someone wants to learn who he actually is : https://exploregeorgia.org/city/lafayette

 

[Dputiger]

D’Artagnan became their captain-lieutenant in 1667, and his command would very briefly include a young Marquis de Lafayette, who later went on to do some other stuff.

Maybe he commanded one of Lafayette's forebears, but the Lafayette who took part in the American Revolution was born in 1757. D'Artagnan died, according to this article, in 1673.

 

[Veritas super omens]

I have a bit of family lore linking to the Marquis de Lafayette. Allegedly, my ancestors were among the French troops that accompanied the Marquis to fight the Brits during the revolution and post-war stayed on and farmed in Vermont.

 

[Whatexit]

Great article.

Fascinating that they don't yet know the gender of the person buried. In most stories about exhumed humans they are quick to point out based on something like hip shape. I guess it's not as obvious as I had assumed.

Also, shame on me for not knowing the 3 musketeers were based on a real military unit!

when I read the book as a child, I assumed that the story was fiction and details about these dudes were completely made up. Seems like I was wrong about at least one of the characters.

 

[ChronoDeus]

Great article.

Fascinating that they don't yet know the gender of the person buried. In most stories about exhumed humans they are quick to point out based on something like hip shape. I guess it's not as obvious as I had assumed.

Most likely they simply haven't had the bones formally examined yet. As such, they're simply declining to state anything as fact.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

I still have a huge fondness for the 1973 film starring Michael York, Oliver Reed, Richard Chamberlain, Raquel Welsh and Roy Kinnear (as well as Christopher Lee, Frank Finlee and many other names).

Penned by George MacDonald Fraser it managed to tell the story in a pleasantly light-hearted way.

 

[Frank C.]

Which one was this? Kiefer Sutherland, Oliver Platt, Charlie Sheen, Chris O'Donnell?

 

[iCowboy]

when I read the book as a child, I assumed that the story was fiction and details about these dudes were completely made up. Seems like I was wrong about at least one of the characters.

All four of them are (loosely) based on real musketeers who were described in the not entirely reliable 1700 book, 'Mémoires de M. d'Artagnan'. That was the main source Dumas used for his characters.

Time for me to re-read The Three Musketeers again, it's a fantastic work with the best heroes ever.

 

[Frank C.]

According to my nephew in the United States, The Three Musketeers are best known as:
View attachment 131481


We see what you did there.

In case anyone is wondering "Why were the Three Musketeers called musketeers when they spent all their time using swords?"

If you don't speak French, le answere.


s
Wait, so he was a college chartered in 1826? /s

would be nice if you actually gave a proper link, not everyone knows US schools or wants to do a campus visit.

if someone wants to learn who he actually is : https://exploregeorgia.org/city/lafayette

I suddenly have an urge for chocolate

 

[klnn]

According to my nephew in the United States, The Three Musketeers are best known as:
View attachment 131481


We see what you did there.

In case anyone is wondering "Why were the Three Musketeers called musketeers when they spent all their time using swords?"

If you don't speak French, le answere.


s
Wait, so he was a college chartered in 1826? /s

would be nice if you actually gave a proper link, not everyone knows US schools or wants to do a campus visit.

if someone wants to learn who he actually is : https://exploregeorgia.org/city/lafayette

lmao yeah idk how i f'ed that up but that's gold

 

[EnPeaSea]

Uh... pretty sure there were waaaay more than just 4 Musketeers.

 

[cleek]

I have a bit of family lore linking to the Marquis de Lafayette. Allegedly, my ancestors were among the French troops that accompanied the Marquis to fight the Brits during the revolution and post-war stayed on and farmed in Vermont.

and went on to give the family name to a street in every town on the east side of NY state.

 

[Yodalicious]

Today I learned d’Artagnan was a real person.

 

[FanaticallyLazy]

I don’t usually reply to articles, just lurking all of your comments …
But I was born & raised in the centre of the city of Maastricht AND now living in the district of Wolder AND currently acting as a fencing coach, I can tell you this is truly great news in Maastricht/Netherlands. There are an awful lot of people engaged in the real or romanticised version of d’Artagnan, even the city has a district called “Campagne” with street names referring to d’Artagnan.

There is a statue of him close to the very place he was (the real one) shot, commemorating the fact he was attacking our city (and dying …). Most likely the only attacker who is celebrated by the defenders. Typically the fake/romanticised d’Artagnan is more celebrated than the name giver.

 

[SixDegrees]

I was also surprised by the gender uncertainty! Perhaps we are still early in the typical archeological discovery/analysis timeline?

Unrelated, its intriguing to me that so much was documented and known about d’Artagnan and his likely whereabouts without anyone finding him till now... the fact that we waited for a Priest's permission to do Tile Repairs in 2026 is just mind boggling and reassuring to me

Determing sex of skeletons turns out not to be so easy. There were a handful of markers that were used in the past, but they've all proven to be unreliable indicators of sex. DNA testing of various kinds is the gold standard now, and the article mentions they're awaiting such results.

 

[CarrerCrytharis]

Did they also find the skeleton of his ludicrous yellow horse?

 

[black_box]

Did they really only dig in one small spot for a cracked tile and lucked out that he/someone was buried right there?

 

[vvax56nM]

I was also surprised by the gender uncertainty! Perhaps we are still early in the typical archeological discovery/analysis timeline?

Unrelated, its intriguing to me that so much was documented and known about d’Artagnan and his likely whereabouts without anyone finding him till now... the fact that we waited for a Priest's permission to do Tile Repairs in 2026 is just mind boggling and reassuring to me

Personally, I find it more intriguing that an officer and someone of the nobility that was also highly valued by the king got such an anonymous grave.

Also, those tiles in the church was of very good quality since they haven't needed repairs for 180 years (I assume people have been looking for d'Artagnan's grave since the release of The Three Musketeers in 1844).

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Did they also find the skeleton of his ludicrous yellow horse?

 

[AverageDutchGuy]

Great article.

Fascinating that they don't yet know the gender of the person buried. In most stories about exhumed humans they are quick to point out based on something like hip shape. I guess it's not as obvious as I had assumed.

Also, shame on me for not knowing the 3 musketeers were based on a real military unit!

It can get pretty accurate, but it requires careful examination of preferably multiple skeletal parts (Hips, long bones and skull) by a practiced/experienced anthropologist or forensic scientist. If all they've done so far is carefully exhume the the remains and send them to a lab, they're not going to make any statements one way or the other. And even though it can get pretty accurate, there's plenty of cases where it is also not nearly as clear cut or obvious as some people think.

 

[Oldmanalex]

Maybe he commanded one of Lafayette's forebears, but the Lafayette who took part in the American Revolution was born in 1757. D'Artagnan died, according to this article, in 1673.

Chat GTP does not see any problem here, although their D'Artagnan porn stream mysteriously died right in the middle of the well documented deWinter-Athos-D'Artagnan threesome, just when they were illustrating the "All in one, and one in all" motto.

 

[josephhansen]

Which one was this? Kiefer Sutherland, Oliver Platt, Charlie Sheen, Chris O'Donnell?

Don't forget Logan Lerman!

 

[henryhbk]

"D’Artagnan became their captain-lieutenant in 1667, and his command would very briefly include a young Marquis de Lafayette, who later went on to do some other stuff."
Check your dates. Maybe a grand-grand father. The Lafayette of American Independence fame lived about one century later.

Per wikipedia he was born 6 September 1757, so as a child prodigy he served in an elite military unit 90 years before his own birth (sounds like something Chuck Norris would have done!)

 

[astack]

Determing sex of skeletons turns out not to be so easy. There were a handful of markers that were used in the past, but they've all proven to be unreliable indicators of sex. DNA testing of various kinds is the gold standard now, and the article mentions they're awaiting such results.

The most famous case that I can think of what you are describing is the US revolutionary war colonial cavalry officer, Casimir Pulaski:

The skeleton has a number of typically female features, which has led to the hypothesis that Pulaski may have been female or intersex.[63][64][65] A documentary based on the Smithsonian study suggests that Pulaski's hypothesised intersex condition could have been caused by congenital adrenal hyperplasia, where a fetus with female chromosomes is exposed to a high level of testosterone in utero and develops partially male genitals. This analysis was based on the skeleton's female pelvis, facial structure and jaw angle, in combination with the fact that Pulaski identified as and lived as male.

It's fun to think that one of the revolutionary war heroes, whom conservatives idolize, might have actually been trans, people whom they vilify.

 

[AverageDutchGuy]

Personally, I find it more intriguing that an officer and someone of the nobility that was also highly valued by the king got such an anonymous grave.

Also, those tiles in the church was of very good quality since they haven't needed repairs for 180 years (I assume people have been looking for d'Artagnan's grave since the release of The Three Musketeers in 1844).

I doubt the tiles are 180 years old (or older, though they could be, this being Europe and the church being that old). Keep in mind there's been a LOT of history between June 1673 and now. The French were at Maastricht attacking the Dutch Republic (See "Franco-Dutch war of 1672 to 1678" for reference). The city became Dutch again later and it might well be that they didn't much care for keeping the grave of a French noble around. Even in 1844 they might well already have things in that church that would prevent them from digging (likely at that time just the fact that it was a church was enough deterrent).

Edited to improve sentence structure on rereading.

 

[avant]

Did they also find the skeleton of his ludicrous yellow horse?

Probably not, as he sold it upon his arrival at Paris.