Apple Vision Pro

Bonusround

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Had an opportunity to try Orion.

TL;DR: the hardware is early, Meta are bold, and Apple are probably wise to keep any powder in this area dry.

The Orion hardware is actually quite beautiful, in a geeky if not fashionable way. The glasses are dense, with sensors and buttons and plugs everywhere, yet smooth, refined-feeling, and surprisingly lightweight. I think these "chunky glasses" are actually more cohesive as a design than, say, Google Glass – which tried to be stylish and svelte, but failed in the pudgy areas it couldn't cover up. Orion, at least, is consistently big-boned throughout. The compute puck is smooth, possibly soft-touch, about the weight of a phone, and has a bunch of (currently unused) cameras on two of its sides.

Windowing and hand controls work quite a bit like the latest Quest update. There's a central bar with a launcher. New panels appear there and existing panels push aside to occupy one of three window slots. The wrist strap works mostly as advertised and shows promise, though I feel its discrete cursor-like controls could better gel with the freeform hand controls. There are a small number of apps. The browser, for one, is responsive and usable, feeling much like the one on Quest. It seemed to prefer rendering in dark mode (white text on black). Scrolling is consistent, and though not 60Hz smooth it‘s doing far upwards of 30. World tracking is solid, things stayed where I placed them and didn't jump around.

Then we have the displays. There’s no doubt that Orion's image quality leaps past Hololens and bounds beyond Magic Leap. The lenses are nicely translucent and do not distort passthrough – I could easily imagine wearing these while reading a book or working on a computer display. FOV appears to extend across the entire span of the lenses, which are a healthy size. Text is clear but soft-edged; it shimmers and exhibits an odd but mild kind of chromatic aberration. Stereoscopy is quite good. The starship tunnel-shooter demo felt nice, like a real hologram hovering in front of me. But like Hololens and Leap these are still additive projections; the colors are not saturated, the imagery is dim. As currently formulated Orion would seem to work best with the lights low or off because, of course, everything is translucent. Using it outside under sunny skies would be, I imagine, a complete no-op.

That fact that the puck and glasses are wirelessly tethered is rad. That's a real piece of innovation on Meta's part. But compared to the quality of passthrough MR that Vision Pro or Quest 3 can perform... well, currently it’s no contest. I wonder whether we're about to witness a race for which can improve faster: passthrough camera feed quality or waveguide display quality? Apple might have the right idea with that front-facing display after all.
 
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Bonusround

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Heh...kinda reminds me of the old Apple rumor where they were at a crossroads between a wireless hub or integrated headset, ultimately going with the latter.
Yes! I‘ve thought of that too. But in that alternate Apple history the compute hub was reportedly a hot-running mains-powered device. By contrast Meta have taken the two-body, single-battery approach from Leap and made a two-body, two-battery, and therefore fully-untethered device.
 

Horatio

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The Information is reporting that Apple has drastically scaled back its production of the AVP and may be ending the production run in November
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/apple-sharply-scales-back-production-of-vision-pro
Maybe this means they'll start retooling for the next version, or it could also signal them winding down their VR ambitions. Still, there are rumors of the non-Pro coming out next year, and a new Pro coming out a year after that.
 

Mhorydyn

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The Information is reporting that Apple has drastically scaled back its production of the AVP and may be ending the production run in November
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/apple-sharply-scales-back-production-of-vision-pro
Maybe this means they'll start retooling for the next version, or it could also signal them winding down their VR ambitions. Still, there are rumors of the non-Pro coming out next year, and a new Pro coming out a year after that.
The 'may be ending the production run' bit is a pretty pivotal bit of speculation from the article. Hopefully they'll be gearing up for the next version, as it is a fascinating product at an unfortunately high price. If they wind down their work on VR after less than a year of seemingly half-hearted effort in the market, that's pretty disappointing. The high price coupled with, I'm speculating, staff being pulled away to focus on AI stuff, hasn't made for an amazing launch -- look at how many of their apps are still just running the iPad versions. But, even with the most brilliant launch you could imagine, it was always going to be pretty limited at this price. What it needs is time and effort dedicated to both the software/content and the hardware.
 

Horatio

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The 'may be ending the production run' bit is a pretty pivotal bit of speculation from the article.
Well, it depends on how much you trust an employee at Luxshare (the manufacturer of the AVP):
In recent weeks, Apple has told Luxshare, which is responsible for the Vision Pro’s final assembly, that it might need to wind down its manufacturing in November, according to an employee at the Chinese manufacturer.
 

Horatio

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Regarding the future of the platform overall, I’m going to put more stock in Tim’s comments in the recently published WSJ piece than in those of a random Luxshare employee.
It's not a random employee though. The Information is a very good news source and the wouldn't print it if the person wasn't in the know. They could be wrong, but they're thorough.
 

belazeebub

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What are the odds of there being a Black Friday deal on AVP? (Answering my own question, I'm going to guess low but I guess it depends on how keen they are on clearing out their stock.)

On a related note, anybody using one as a daily driver as a monitor replacement? I'm tempted to try one but am a little leery of the weight, heat, and any possible negative fallout on my eyes which are starting to feel their age.
 

jaberg

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It's not a random employee though. The Information is a very good news source and the wouldn't print it if the person wasn't in the know. They could be wrong, but they're thorough.
The source could be right that Apple is stopping (or slowing) production of the current AVP. Regardless, I’ll assign greater weight to Cook’s statements supporting his belief in the future of the platform. I don’t believe Apple is killing the project.
 

Mhorydyn

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What are the odds of there being a Black Friday deal on AVP? (Answering my own question, I'm going to guess low but I guess it depends on how keen they are on clearing out their stock.)

On a related note, anybody using one as a daily driver as a monitor replacement? I'm tempted to try one but am a little leery of the weight, heat, and any possible negative fallout on my eyes which are starting to feel their age.
I have many dozens of hours of seat time with the AVP and...ehhh, I don't think I'd want to use it as a monitor replacement for a full work day sort of thing. A few hours isn't a problem, but a full work day on the regular would probably not be very comfortable for most people.
 
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They never released a car though. You can buy a Vision Pro today. They have killed products that were also platforms before though, so it wouldn't be unprecedented if the sales never take off.

  • XServe / OS X Server
  • AirPort
  • Newton / MessagePad
I would make the case that even of those only the Newton was comparable to the AVP. XServe and OS X Server were both extensions of Mac OS X, and AirPort was “just” a really well done 802.11 base station. None of those were platforms the way the Newton was or the AVP is intended to be.

In fact, taking a step further back, the AVP is really the fourth major paradigm Apple has ever introduced, and the first under Tim Cook. The first was the GUI with the original Mac. After that was the Newton and its stylus-based interface, and f then multitouch with the iPhone. Finally we have AVP and its concept of “spatial computing.” If you really want to be pedantic I guess you could potentially include the iPod and its click wheel here, but that was always intended for a specific purpose with limited storage. As the purpose widened and storage increased it quickly hit its practical limits, so I’m not including it here.

Seen in that context bailing on the AVP would be the biggest retreat Apple’s made since Jobs 2.0. It’s the first real attempt Apple has made since the iPhone at driving a new computing paradigm and only the second sans Steve Jobs (and the first ended a failure even if hindsight sees the Newton as a great idea a decade ahead of its time). That doesn’t mean they won’t cut their losses, but it would be accepting a pretty humiliating defeat

Cook’s tenure at Apple has been enormously successful, but you don’t rise to the CEO spot at a company with Apple’s legacy just to be successful. He still doesn’t have his signature product that leaves his stamp on Apple and secures his legacy. He’s a true believer in health and the Apple Watch, but the sensors have progressed more slowly than I suspect he wanted/expected. The car was ultimately a failure. That leaves the AVP as his biggest opportunity to leave his mark on both Apple and the industry at large, and I can’t see him being in a hurry to retreat from the chance.
 

wrylachlan

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Ming-Chi Kuo has the cheaper Vision headset as delayed beyond 2027
https://www.uploadvr.com/kuo-claim-cheaper-apple-vision-headset-delayed-beyond-2027/
Honestly this doesn’t surprise me at all. We’ve not seen any indication of the kind of manufacturing build out necessary for Sony to produce mass market scale displays at mass market prices.

[edit] And that same report is now claiming an M5 Vision Pro next year. Which sounds eminently sensible and almost exactly what I would have expected.
 

ant1pathy

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Whatever the next vision pro is, it'd be nice if it were able to use a Mac as a co-processor for 3D rendering. At that price, you'd expect the vision pro to be a true VR headset that can render complex scenes, not just an AR headset.
Isn't that just the "use the VP as a screen for your Mac" though...?
 

wrylachlan

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Will rumours of an M5 AVP have an Osborne-effect on the current generation? I've been vacillating about getting one but an M5 seems worth waiting for.
This far out? Probably not. By summer of next year? Hell yeah. But it’s like that for all Apple products. Sales of iPhones are always at their lowest before a refresh.
 

belazeebub

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Isn't next WWDC early for an M5 product?
Who knows? The M4 iPad Pro was released on May 15, 2024 so it would represent a semi-typical one year release cycle ... but I don't expect it that early. I'm surprised that Apple is doing one (an upgraded AVP) at all next year. Maybe it's aimed at getting it more Apple Intelligence ready ... though I would have expected an M4 to be sufficient for that.
 

wco81

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It’s been over a month since anybody has posted in this thread - or any other thread - about the Apple Vision Pro.

I feel like this is underscoring the lack of interest in this product. Even enthusiasts aren’t interested in talking about it. 🤷‍♀️

If there was a Quest thread, would it see more activity?

Not really, the category is just unproven. No evidence that people want to strap things to their faces for hours on end.
 

cmannes

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There's a person who tracks Vision Pro news and posts weekly updates on substack & reddit.

This was the latest: https://lastweekinavp.substack.com/p/last-week-in-avp-45-tim-cook-interviews

Probably the most interesting recent news is that apple & Sony are apparently in talks to make the psvr2 controllers work with the Vision Pro. That could be interesting.

Overall though, the Vision Pro is a tiny (expensive!) part of what's already a really small niche. Which is going to result in less discussion, especially in a more 'general' tech site.

The Macrumors Vision Pro forum tends to get a few new posts daily on various topics. https://forums.macrumors.com/forums/apple-vision-pro.209/
 
Apologies for reviving an old thread. Mods, let me know if I should start a new one on this subject. Funny, as a Day 1 AVP buyer, I have never posted my impressions here.

But tonight I watched a replay of the Lakers Bucks NBA game in the Apple Immersive format. OH. MY. GOD.

I had already been loving the AVP's 2D movie watching, and was then blown away by the 3D Metallica concert, but this NBA game was completely nuts. It truly feels like you are sitting courtside. Just watching the Lakers in warm ups I was completely convinced that LeBron James was five feet from me shooting jumpers.

Then for game play your viewing angles shift from baseline, to mid-court, to up in the press box. Then replays are shown from yet a different angle. And you look up at the ceiling of Staples and there's the "real" scoreboard.

Just can't say enough how impressed I was. When this tech finally goes mainstream in a lightweight, $999 device, watching sports on a regular TV is going to be like watching 1930s newsreel footage.
 
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I can’t speak to the Meta experience, but I would have to imagine the AVP experience is even better.

These Laker games are being filmed with the special BlackMagic cameras expressly for the Apple Immersive format.

If any of you have access to a friend with an AVP, try out this NBA footage. They are keeping the full games and extended highlights available in the NBA app.
 

Bonusround

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Fun fact: you can still browse the original Steam listing for NextVR, the app/company that Apple bought in 2020.

For those watching the highlight reel in a browser and asking: what's the big deal? Viewing in static 2D does it no justice; experiencing immersive footage in full hemispheric 3D is a night and day experience.

I remember trying NextVR on an Index back then; basketball was clearly the sport that most impressed.
 

cateye

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Apologies for reviving an old thread. Mods, let me know if I should start a new one on this subject. Funny, as a Day 1 AVP buyer, I have never posted my impressions here.

No problem at all. There was a somewhat apocryphal concern ages ago with the old phpbb-based forums that reviving ancient threads could cause a database burp, but there are no similar concerns with xenforo. Personally, I think perpetual threads, like this one, should be revived as needed with new commentary or information so they remain a relevant point of reference.
 

jeanlain

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Since this thread has moved up, what about all the AR content Disney was supposed to bring to the Vision Pro? I recall some sort of teaser they showed at WWDC.
After 2.5 years, it doesn't seem like the Vision Pro is worth its price when it comes to content. "Being productive"" and "filming your daughter's birthday" with goggles on don't look that appealing.

Remove that stupid 3D screen that increases weight and cost (and recognize that you simply don't interact with others when you wear such a thing) and make something morel like the new Steam Frame.
I'm not even sure that the new Vision Pro can stream 3D content rendered by a Mac.
 
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Mhorydyn

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Just can't say enough how impressed I was. When this tech finally goes mainstream in a lightweight, $999 device, watching sports on a regular TV is going to be like watching 1930s newsreel footage.
While I have no interest in sports (aside from StarCraft) or concerts, I hope Apple pushes hard in this area. If they manage to cut the price in half with some compelling sports/concert deals in place, I could see a decent number of people picking them up. The amount of money people spend going to, say, Taylor Swift concerts or playoffs represent a pretty solid market to target. In my ~month with an AVP, it ended up becoming my favourite way to watch movies, even above going to a movie theatre. It's not hard to imagine a future where the piles of people who can't attend their favourite concerts or games either due to cost or geography could buy (or borrow from a friend) an 'Apple Vision Studio' to get close enough.
 
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