After ruining Android messaging, Google says iMessage is too powerful

Google failed to compete with iMessage for years. Now it wants Apple to play nice.

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[Wtcher]

Err... as noted in Apple's explainer (and I just totally checked my own phone anyway), the coloured bubbles are reserved for messages you've sent. Received messages show up as either:

- white on dark grey (dark mode)
- black on silver (light mode)

I feel like this entire debacle is centred on misdirection.

 

[mschira]

It is stunning how determined Google was in the last couple of years to ruin every single messenger attempt they had.
I was using the chat function and even video talk function build into Gmail a few years back, untill they started bombarding people that they will discontinue it.
For no reason.

 

[simon5701]

imessage is only a thing in the US. Everywhere else is either SMS or whatsapp.

While it's the largest messaging app overall Whatsapp isn't the biggest messenger everywhere. There are countries such as Japan, China, Korea, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Greece, and others where Whatsapp isn't the top messaging platform.

On a related note it's always surprising so many seem so positive on Whatsapp being a such dominant player given who owns it.

 

[TechCrazy]

I want Google Wave back

 

[Fabermetrics]

For anyone unaware the issue is more than just the color of the bubble. SMS group chats simply dont work well. Photos dont send, random messages will be sent directly to group members, etc. Theres a reason RMS was created. Apple is at fault here for not allowing RMS group chats, but I dont blame folks for having stigma of green bubbles. For the last decade theyve been a sign of "This isnt going to work".
RMS has its flaws too. Every user can name the group, so Ive been in several chats renamed by someone else to "Fabermetrics and Bob", despite the convo actually being "Bob and Joe" relative to me (WHOS THE THIRD PERSON?).
The same group of people can also make multiple group chats. When I disabled RMS on my android while switching to IOS, it left 9 group chats with the same 4 people that had somehow been created over they 1-2 years we have been using RMS.

 

[Gangsta101]

Google and messaging! Just ridiculous how they go out of their way to wreck anything good they build.
I used hangouts for a while. it was reliable and solid. you could send SMS, MMS or hangout messages from the default screen. Even when Whatsapp was blowing up, hangouts was still solid. Plus you had the ability to call phone numbers, in addition to the hangouts video chats and audio chats. Hangouts was the app to rule all others, and they had the ecosystem to push it if they wanted.

Yet somehow they managed to kill it. Any company that does that deserves to have no invitation to the messaging table.

 

[stormcrash]

Eat crow Google. After all the shenanigans you pulled with YouTube (blocking it on Windows Phone and the Echo Show) the largest video platform I have zero tears for you if another company doesn't want to release a service on your platforms. And unlike Google did with YouTube it's not like Apple is picking and choosing the winners and losers of whose platforms they will support, it is a feature exclusive to their products alone. All other platforms are equal in the "I don't have iMessage" category, but I don't see Microsoft crying a river of crocodile tears

 

[Hispalensis]

Facebook paid $22 billion to buy WhatsApp in 2014

Man, where did the last eight years go?

 

[siliconaddict]

F*** you Google. I may not be a fan of Apple. But I will defend them because unlike your sorry ass, they at the very least know how to develop a product, know how to make it mature, and not have to reinvent the damn thing every 3 years. Don't blame Apple for your incompetence.

 

[kehcorpz]

Think Different... whoa not that different!

 

[stormcrash]

"Sorry, the only way to send messages outside the walled garden is via carrier pigeon".

(A pox on both houses here, obviously. Apple seems to eagerly promoting vendor lock-in through proprietary messaging protocols; and Google seems uninterested in competing on the merits).

Speaking of both platforms--to what extent might text messages be analyzed and monetized? Google is obviously the more likely offender there; as their entire business model is knowing everything about you so they can sell you shit; but I don't entirely trust Apple.

If "text messaging" is somehow protected by law from such snooping by either the carrier or the platform vendor, I can see why google might not be as interested in it.

Yes how dare Apple offer their users a feature like better messaging than the hot garbage the carriers provide. How evil of them to make a useful messaging service /s

 

[Thatmushroom]

Google's sour grapes about their 13 failed messaging platforms are hilarious, but the broader topic is perhaps more interesting.
Data and platform access as modern anti-trust measures is an idea that's been kicking around for a little while, and this fits neatly in that box.

I don't know what I believe about the efficacy of those remedies – it's never really been tried, so we can only go off of beliefs and heuristics!
I don't know the specific importance of messaging to buttressing the sum corporate power of Apple. I also don't have strong opinions about an action like opening the imessage standard to all might deleverage corporate power and generate competition in addition to the competition that exists now.

That being said, messaging is a multi-billion-dollar market, so it's not a trivial or negligible discussion. Such actions would have some effect, and gaming them out would be interesting. Having some epistemic humility and keeping the debate open and open-minded will serve us all well.

https://www.yalebooks.co.uk/display.asp ... qf=/6_15

Edit: I put down 17 message platforms as a hyperbolic guess. Re-reading and seeing that it's 13 means hyperbole is dead.

 

[runemail]

imessage is only a thing in the US. Everywhere else is either SMS or whatsapp.

Not from the US and nobody in my circles care about sms or WhatsApp much. Sms is that thing on your phone for two factor verification right? Popular a few decades ago if i remember correctly. I use Facebook messenger because everyone is so easy to reach there and it's a pretty good product. Newer use the actual Facebook, but did until a decade ago, before it became pure cancer. Iphone users use iMessage since it's on their phones and better than sms. Usually the whole family is on the same os (iOS or android). Many get iphones from their workplace as well and give their old phone to their kids when they get a new one.

 

[50me12]

Google provides no competition… complains about results…

 

[Uxorious]

My wife often bullies me for having a green bubble. Please send help.

Please stand by, someone dressed in a green Android costume will be dispatched to your home in 6 mo. to 2 yrs. with a personal safe space update to help you resist.

 

[balthazarr]

"iMessage should not benefit from bullying"?

It's barely 2022, and undoubtedly we've already reached peak stupidity.

 

[SittingDuck]

Back in my online dating days, I did genuinely (more than once!) have women say "ew no thank you" when I texted them and a green bubble popped up on their screen.

No. A green bubble did not pop up on their iPhone screen when they received your text message.

 

[Abhi Beckert]

As a kid, I did all of my chats on a google messaging app - can't remember what it was named, they had so many.

It was perfect, I loved it, everyone I knew loved it, and Google shut it down and wanted us to move to a shitty replacement (pretty sure it was gmail - who wants to use email in a web browser for chat?! Not me)

Sorry but I never want to go through that again. Until Google proves they will support popular platforms indefinitely I won't use any google messaging service.

 

[stormcrash]

"Sorry, the only way to send messages outside the walled garden is via carrier pigeon".

(A pox on both houses here, obviously. Apple seems to eagerly promoting vendor lock-in through proprietary messaging protocols; and Google seems uninterested in competing on the merits).

Speaking of both platforms--to what extent might text messages be analyzed and monetized? Google is obviously the more likely offender there; as their entire business model is knowing everything about you so they can sell you shit; but I don't entirely trust Apple.

If "text messaging" is somehow protected by law from such snooping by either the carrier or the platform vendor, I can see why google might not be as interested in it.

Yes how dare Apple offer their users a feature like better messaging than the hot garbage the carriers provide. How evil of them to make a useful messaging service /s

I'm not objecting to them doing that, per se.

But at some point, General Sherman ought to come knocking, and require they open up the platform.

Of course, even if Apple were to completely publish their messaging protocol specs and/or provide a gateway for other messaging clients to interface with iMessage on more or less equal terms... I'll bet a beer that a third-party messaging app would provide better support for that than Google does.

I disagree. This is like saying "Apple sells too many iPhones and therefore must start to license iOS, it makes no sense. Not every service has to be available on every platform. If Apple were discriminating between various 3rd parties I would agree and say that they need to offer standard terms to get the app on each platform, but they are not. They are treating every 3rd party the same, no iMessage, if iMessage is important to you then you need an Apple device.

 

[trynberg]

While Google has screwed the pooch on messaging for many years, and this current "bullying" line of thinking is ridiculous, I also see no good reason that Apple can't integrate RCS into iMessage.

 

[moobg]

imessage is only a thing in the US. Everywhere else is either SMS or whatsapp.

Well in Australia Apples market share has grown to 45.7% according to the Australian Financial Review. I don't know what point your trying to make, let me guess that Android is solely used outside the U.S. Hate to break it to you, but you're wrong.

Annecdotally my network of fam & friends is team blue bubble. Also I tried the green bubble phones and did not like them, so I switched back.

They aren't talking about Android vs. iOS, they are saying people who use iPhones outside the US don't use iMessage. I don't live outside the US so I don't know how true that is, but I've commonly heard this.

Completely anecdotal and I can only speak for my family (and a few friends and their families) but we all use WhatsApp because it's platform agnostic. We live in different states and in different countries, so even though I think the majority have iPhones, everyone uses one app that works regardless of where you are or what platform you're on. I'd like to pull them away from WhatsApp onto, well, anything not Meta/Facebook related, but when you're talking about a large group of people of varying technical understanding, it isn't the easiest thing to do.

With local friends/family I just use Messages. It's functional enough.

 

[Uxorious]

Kids really need to change to unlocked platforms. I prefer Discord personally.

So, are you advocating replacing peer pressure with disagreement, or an unpleasant combination of musical notes?

 

[toxman]

Correct, the solution exists, and it is called Signal.

Signal is my main texting app these days. But interoperability is its Achilles' heel. Moxie and co. need to stabilize the feature set and make it an open protocol asap.

If you want an open protocol then Matrix would be your best bet. Signal (which I also use) is doing their own thing and that's perfectly fine.

Also, what interoperability issues are there with Signal? It supports Android, iOS, Windows, Mac, and Linux. What exactly is missing?

 

[anonymouschicken]

Back in my online dating days, I did genuinely (more than once!) have women say "ew no thank you" when I texted them and a green bubble popped up on their screen.

No. A green bubble did not pop up on their iPhone screen when they received your text message.

Forgive me. Apparently a green bubble popped up on their screen when I texted them and they replied. As established, I do not have an iPhone, so I had the specifics backwards.

 

[MonkeyT]

Using peer pressure and bullying as a way to sell products is disingenuous for a company that has humanity and equity as a core part of its marketing.

... says "Don't Be Evil", Inc.

 

[lcubed11]

definitely dislike the green bubbles.

each time i see one, i end up paying for another text since my plan doesn't include unlimited texts.

no such issue with the blue bubbles even when abroad.

 

[barich]

We do need a universal, interoperable messaging standard. SMS was that. It's terrible in the present day for a variety of reasons, but its replacement shouldn't be worse in that regard. We will never be able to move on from using it as a fallback if carriers, Apple, and Google can't all cooperate on something.

 

[mikeschr]

iMessage lock in is such a funny concept for me
Here in Italy m even iOS users tend to not use iMessage, or at least that’s my personal experience.

I have an iPhone and I don't use iMessage, because I go back and forth between platforms at times and I've always used my Google Voice number. I suppose other people with iPhones see me as green, since I'm using regular SMS. I don't care.

 

[pursual]

On Delta flights you can use free messaging via Wi-Fi on I-message, Facebook messenger, and WhatsApp. There's no Google option, because there's no unified Google Messenger that has been around for any amount of time.

 

[Abhi Beckert]

Come on Ron, this is silly. Whining or not Apple needs to start enabling RCS.

RCS sucks. Messages should be delivered to a person, not a specific device.

Most people own multiple devices. The message has to go to all of them. iMessage does that, RCS doesn't.