“Net neutrality” complaints target speeds, prices, and data caps

AT&T, Comcast, and Verizon frequent subjects of early complaints to FCC.

Read the whole story

 

[Nowicki]

Oooh be careful big data/telcos it looks like your competing for highest number of complaints. If you cant keep this up you might "reduce competition".

 

[Asvarduil]

The problem isn't so much "net neutrality"- at present - as it is, "monopolies that provide inferior service."

Note: When I said "net neutrality isn't the problem", that wasn't challenging ISPs to make it a problem! Please don't, OK?

 

[THavoc]

I would hope this would be a wakeup call, particularly for those people who continue to labor under the delusion that everybody must be happy with their broadband.

Wait a second!

You mean people weren't happy with getting their names changed to Asshole or Bitch on their bills?

Or perhaps being promised service at a location only to find out later that, in fact, no they can't get service there?

Shocking!

 

[JTD121]

I'm actually surprised at 'only' 2000 complaints about this, especially given the apparent furor on tech sites like Ars.

So what is the FCC to do with this information? Better question, how much worse are ISPs going to make life for those that complained, and everyone else, just to prove they own us?

 

[IronTek]

JButler[/url]":xt28m55w]People can whine here everyday, but speed, data cap, and price cannot be had all at once.

You can choose at most two.

That's fine. I'll take speed and price. But then don't try to rape me on overage charges. I know what they pay for it, and I'll happily pay double. Maybe triple. But be reasonable.

 

[THavoc]

JTD121[/url]":16u9s4y4]I'm actually surprised at 'only' 2000 complaints about this, especially given the apparent furor on tech sites like Ars.

So what is the FCC to do with this information? Better question, how much worse are ISPs going to make life for those that complained, and everyone else, just to prove they own us?

2,000 net neutrality complaints

I'm sure they received a lot of other types of complaints.

 

[cardboard]

I had Verizon DSL for a year back in the day when it was the only option where I lived. Speed, signal drops, customer service, all were terrible. So bad that 8 years later it still keeps me from considering Verizon for any type of service. Even though my house is wired for FIOS. I have had Cox since then and the few times I had to call customer service it was always pleasant and they were quick to send a tech out to fix whatever the problem was. I get within 5Mbps of my advertised speed consistently and while they do have data caps, it doesn't appear they enforce them.

Do I have some sort of internet guardian angel or something?

Edit: I don't work for Cox. After re-reading my post it seems like I just typed out some sort of commercial for them....

 

[Madgic]

JButler[/url]":2h3vk65g]People can whine here everyday, but speed, data cap, and price cannot be had all at once.

You can choose at most two.

While not comparable to some offerings globally, what would you call Google Fiber in the areas it's available?

$70/month for 1Gbps internet, cheaper than many Americans pay for their internet-that-isn't-even-considered-broadband-anymore, and I believe that there aren't any data caps.

 

[acetothermus]

JButler[/url]":13iiwfio]People can whine here everyday, but speed, data cap, and price cannot be had all at once.

You can choose at most two.

This is just ignorance and stupidity in one package.

Bandwidth isn't a finite resource. If an ISP needs more speed or bandwidth they simply add more ports. As for cost...explain to me how Google is giving symmetric gigabit service for 70 bucks a month, while Comcast costs me 130/12 for nearly 30 bucks a month more. Seems like the only price issue is that Comcast is greedy and corrupt.


edited for spelling and grammar

 

[Stuka87]

I am wondering if the guy that complained about the data cap at Comcast actually had his connection limited because he went over it, or if he just knows that there is a soft limit there. Comcast has stated before that their 300GB limit is a soft limit and is not actually enforced. I am not sure if I have heard of anybody that has actually been limited.

I have gotten close to that 300GB mark once or twice (it requires a whole lot of downloading), but never gone over it to see if anything happens.

AT&T's limiting of the unlimited wireless deals is really annoying though and should be stopped.

 

[vogelabv]

JButler[/url]":3ixh8ycs]People can whine here everyday, but speed, data cap, and price cannot be had all at once.

You can choose at most two.

Why the hell would you include data cap in your list? It's a completely arbitrary, money grabbing limitation. You can price internet service based on speed alone without any problem. If that means they have to raise prices, fine, but at least they'd start being honest about what service they're providing and how much it actually costs.

 

[colejohnson66]

cardboard[/url]":2fosk1aj]I had Verizon DSL for a year back in the day when it was the only option where I lived. Speed, signal drops, customer service, all were terrible. So bad that 8 years later it still keeps me from considering Verizon for any type of service. Even though my house is wired for FIOS. I have had Cox since then and the few times I had to call customer service it was always pleasant and they were quick to send a tech out to fix whatever the problem was. I get within 5Mbps of my advertised speed consistently and while they do have data caps, it doesn't appear they enforce them.

Do I have some sort of internet guardian angel or something?

Edit: I don't work for Cox. After re-reading my post it seems like I just typed out some sort of commercial for them....

It's probably because Cox is one of the few (decent) ISPs. I've personally never had a problem with Cox, but I know others have. Hovever, the ratio of complaints:customers I've seen is much lower than, say, Comcast, AT&T, etc. Maybe it's where I live (Southern California a block away from a Cox building)?

 

[Redwizard000]

Stuka87[/url]":1trpc8za]I am wondering if the guy that complained about the data cap at Comcast actually had his connection limited because he went over it, or if he just knows that there is a soft limit there. Comcast has stated before that their 300GB limit is a soft limit and is not actually enforced. I am not sure if I have heard of anybody that has actually been limited.

I have gotten close to that 300GB mark once or twice (it requires a whole lot of downloading), but never gone over it to see if anything happens.

AT&T's limiting of the unlimited wireless deals is really annoying though and should be stopped.

I don't have Comcast (thank God) but my ISP also has soft caps. I have gone over it. They don't do anything, they just E-mail you a nastygram.

 

[Nacko]

JButler[/url]":260o23nu]People can whine here everyday, but speed, data cap, and price cannot be had all at once.

You can choose at most two.

Irrespective of my observation that some foreign ISPs and carriers (and Google Fiber, as someone else mentioned, and probably a few other, smaller domestic providers) seem to manage to tick all these boxes, it's important to note that some large American ISPs and carriers are ticking none of them.

In some places, you can choose at most zero.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

JButler[/url]":2pi2ez1h]People can whine here everyday, but speed, data cap, and price cannot be had all at once.

You can choose at most two.

internet service in parts of europe and asia prove you wrong (and the US if you count google fiber). You absolutely CAN have all three, and even get better customer service, but there must be regulation and competition, something that doesn't happen in the us thanks to the deep pockets of telcos.

 

[jdietz]

RCN is in 5 cities throughout our nation. Their uptime isn't 100%, but it's good.
It's expensive, ~$120/mo in Boston. We have 20/2 service. RCN policy is no data cap for any customer. I'm unsure of any unwritten policies about data usage. The terms, like most, say no server operation for residential service.

 

[SmokeTest]

Those talking about the Comcast data caps need a little context. At least in my area (Seattle) they are not enforced. I believe they are not currently being enforced anywhere, except maybe one or two markets.

For reference, I consume around 2,000 GB/month of bandwidth (yes, big B), and I've never been throttled.

[Edit] Looks like Comcast is activating the caps in some markets already, it's just not wide rollout yet.

 

[rmaine]

I note that the "net neutrality" is in quotes, and appropriately so. Data caps really have little to do with net neutrality per se. Yes, a data cap can be done in a manner that violates net neutrality, as in exempting "preferred" providers from the cap. But that's a distinct issue.

To me, net neutrality is a lot more fundamental and important principle than lack of data caps. I think it counterproductive to conflate the two, as that risks having people think that bet neutrality is no more important than data caps, while I think it is actually a lot more important.

 

[dracco37]

The Comcast data caps exist in quite a few markets actually. http://customer.xfinity.com/help-and-su ... -launching

I just want to add, that these markets are much larger than they seem, as they tend to include the "metro" areas of the large cities as well. For instance, I do not live in Jackson, MS, but I am included in the data cap. It is enforced, as we have been charged for going over.

 

[rick*d]

Madgic[/url]":3mgho8wf]

JButler[/url]":3mgho8wf]People can whine here everyday, but speed, data cap, and price cannot be had all at once.

You can choose at most two.

While not comparable to some offerings globally, what would you call Google Fiber in the areas it's available?

$70/month for 1Gbps internet, cheaper than many Americans pay for their internet-that-isn't-even-considered-broadband-anymore, and I believe that there aren't any data caps.

If I had Google Fiber I'd call it "a miracle".

 

[SmokeTest]

JButler[/url]":2pi9zq13]

IronTek[/url]":2pi9zq13]

JButler[/url]":2pi9zq13]People can whine here everyday, but speed, data cap, and price cannot be had all at once.

You can choose at most two.

That's fine. I'll take speed and price. But then don't try to rape me on overage charges. I know what they pay for it, and I'll happily pay double. Maybe triple. But be reasonable.

Here are recent yearly revenue / net profit numbers for Comcast, Verizon and ATT:

Comcast: 47B / 8B
Verizon: 77B/ 11B
ATT: 71B / 6B

Sure their profit margin is higher than grocery store chains, but it's not like they can easily cut price by 50% and still be profitable as many of you seem to suggest. In the case of Comcast, yes, I think there's a bit of extra profit margin due to lack of competition, but the numbers suggest their overpricing is not more than maybe around 10%.

I'm unconcerned with whether or not an ISP runs itself competently enough to both compete fairly and turn a profit. They're required to do the former, if they can't do the latter at the same time, tough.

 

[ctedgeman]

What the FCC should do is disallow ISPs from advertising the top possible speed in a tier with the ol' "up to" nonsense and instead require that they only be allowed to advertise the average speed during peak times.

 

[rick*d]

SmokeTest[/url]":1w5v9xhe]Those talking about the Comcast data caps need a little context. At least in my area (Seattle) they are not enforced. I believe they are not currently being enforced anywhere, except maybe one or two markets.

For reference, I consume around 2,000 GB/month of bandwidth (yes, big B), and I've never been throttled.

I've got Comcast in South King County, and while I don't go anywhere near the data cap I've been throttled every damn month we've been burdened with Comcast. I get nowhere near the advertized speeds. I hate to say it, but I was much happier with AT&T At Home.

 

[Versa]

Here are recent yearly revenue / net profit numbers for Comcast, Verizon and ATT:

Comcast: 47B / 8B
Verizon: 77B/ 11B
ATT: 71B / 6B

I assume that is for their entire business, including cable TV and cell phone usage? Lets see that broken down to the ISP level please. Rumor is much of their profit is in the ISP side.

 

[Drethon]

Can I complain about Verizon automatically switching my unlimited 4G to a 2 gig a month account when I bought a new phone? Probably not...

 

[SmokeTest]

rick*d[/url]"mrcryak]

SmokeTest[/url]"mrcryak]Those talking about the Comcast data caps need a little context. At least in my area (Seattle) they are not enforced. I believe they are not currently being enforced anywhere, except maybe one or two markets.

For reference, I consume around 2,000 GB/month of bandwidth (yes, big B), and I've never been throttled.

I've got Comcast in South King County, and while I don't go anywhere near the data cap I've been throttled every damn month we've been burdened with Comcast. I get nowhere near the advertized speeds. I hate to say it, but I was much happier with AT&T At Home.

I'm on the far North side, and also got nowhere near the advertised speeds for a long time. The issue was that they kept misconfiguring my modem, so it connected on exactly one downstream channel and one upstream channel (out of 8/4 available). Every time I tried to explain this to a technician, they just told me how they don't troubleshoot routers. Literally nothing I said ever convinced them that there was a concept of a "channel" that didn't have anything to do with the router.

I even disconnected the router and told them I didn't own one. They tried to sell me a $79.99/month premium support package from some third party company, who could totally help me configure my router. The Comcast employee actually guaranteed that, and had no response when I asked him how he could possibly guarantee that a person he didn't know could solve a problem he didn't understand (and who was still insisting it was a router issue, with the router sitting in a box).

The problem solved itself when they recently updated their speed tiers. Looks like whoever did the update also fixed the problem with the bootfile.

 

[theoilman]

I'm moving tomorrow and have to switch to Verizon... Wish me luck

Comcast was my only other choice, so I think I made the right one

 

[THavoc]

theoilman[/url]":fv0pk6du]I'm moving tomorrow and have to switch to Verizon... Wish me luck

We mourn your absence from the Internet when Verizon fails to connect you.

 

[arkiel]

One AT&T customer in Tennessee that pays $99.70 a month for 3Mbps Internet and phone service wrote that "In addition to this outrageous monthly price, our services are CONSTANTLY going out.

The bolded line invests me with a rage bright and red and murderous.

 

[SmokeTest]

theoilman[/url]":3rcnrcsw]I'm moving tomorrow and have to switch to Verizon... Wish me luck

Comcast was my only other choice, so I think I made the right one

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Either way, we all lose.

 

[JButler]

Madgic[/url]":3ip5l819]

JButler[/url]":3ip5l819]People can whine here everyday, but speed, data cap, and price cannot be had all at once.

You can choose at most two.

While not comparable to some offerings globally, what would you call Google Fiber in the areas it's available?

$70/month for 1Gbps internet, cheaper than many Americans pay for their internet-that-isn't-even-considered-broadband-anymore, and I believe that there aren't any data caps.

Where in the US can you not get real broadband (>10Mbps?) at $70? That sounds exaggerated.

You can't take Google's price at face value because 1) New market entrants often offer sweet deals initially to gain PR points and market share at the expense of profit margin. 2) Google is already a cash machine and they can afford zero to negative profit margin in new markets they want to enter. 3) They might have a different business model (e.g. ads, Google services) in mind.

 

[SirRyno]

Stuka87[/url]":2rwxsis5]I am wondering if the guy that complained about the data cap at Comcast actually had his connection limited because he went over it, or if he just knows that there is a soft limit there. Comcast has stated before that their 300GB limit is a soft limit and is not actually enforced. I am not sure if I have heard of anybody that has actually been limited.

I have gotten close to that 300GB mark once or twice (it requires a whole lot of downloading), but never gone over it to see if anything happens.

AT&T's limiting of the unlimited wireless deals is really annoying though and should be stopped.

Speaking as someone who has Comcast in the Memphis market and has gone over the cap multiple times. I feel I can add some details.

Once you reach 300gb they charge you $15 for an additional 50gb of web traffic. Each 50 go after that is another $15 after that.

It is easier than you think to reach it. I think I have broke it about 40% of the time since they instituted it. Between streaming movies and YouTube you get pretty close. Cord cut except for college football which I watch through my internet connection. Plus a couple of 25gb to 50gb games. You get there pretty easily.

Now that I know I can complain about this to the fcc I know what I will be doing tonight.

 

[Versa]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-kus ... 91916.html

But, using identical calculations we find that the High-Speed Internet, while it costs customers, on average, $43.92, the total costs to TWC to offer the service was only $175 million -- resulting in a 97 percent profit margin.

That is when it costs $43.92, I shudder to think what the 92$ a month I am paying for internet nets them in profit.

 

[Z1ggy]

JTD121[/url]":2qkew33k]I'm actually surprised at 'only' 2000 complaints about this, especially given the apparent furor on tech sites like Ars.

Some people like myself think its wrong that AT&T and Comcast do all this stuff. But aren't actually customers.

So can I really complain if im not a customer? maybe, but then I drown out legitimate complaints.

 

[bobthe]

The title of this article in the RSS feed does not match. Very confusing (although a minor issue, just wanted to point it out)

 

[rick*d]

SmokeTest[/url]":7akzeeh7]

rick*d[/url]":7akzeeh7]

SmokeTest[/url]":7akzeeh7]Those talking about the Comcast data caps need a little context. At least in my area (Seattle) they are not enforced. I believe they are not currently being enforced anywhere, except maybe one or two markets.

For reference, I consume around 2,000 GB/month of bandwidth (yes, big B), and I've never been throttled.

I've got Comcast in South King County, and while I don't go anywhere near the data cap I've been throttled every damn month we've been burdened with Comcast. I get nowhere near the advertized speeds. I hate to say it, but I was much happier with AT&T At Home.

I'm on the far North side, and also got nowhere near the advertised speeds for a long time. The issue was that they kept misconfiguring my modem, so it connected on exactly one downstream channel and one upstream channel (out of 8/4 available). Every time I tried to explain this to a technician, they just told me how they don't troubleshoot routers. Literally nothing I said ever convinced them that there was a concept of a "channel" that didn't have anything to do with the router.

I even disconnected the router and told them I didn't own one. They tried to sell me a $79.99/month premium support package from some third party company, who could totally help me configure my router. The Comcast employee actually guaranteed that, and had no response when I asked him how he could possibly guarantee that a person he didn't know could solve a problem he didn't understand (and who was still insisting it was a router issue, with the router sitting in a box).

The problem solved itself when they recently updated their speed tiers. Looks like whoever did the update also fixed the problem with the bootfile.

Genuinely curious: How do you as a consumer know/tell how many channels are being used by your modem? How did you know that was the problem?

My personal experience has been that the nimrods on the phone don't know jack, but the techs they send into the field are pretty sharp. The first thing the phone techs want you to do is unplug the equipment and plug it back in. "But a tree took out your wire and we can see it laying in the street!" "I need you to unplug your cable box and plug it back in again."

We had a problem with signal strength at the TV in our upstairs bedroom, and one tech installed an amplifier and replaced all our cable connectors (just in case), and replaced the splitter that split the signal coming into the house between the new amp and the cable modem, all at no charge. We had another tech who measured the signal strength at the house, noted it was below standard, called out a crew to check the amplifier at the top of the utility pole, and canceled the service call so we didn't have to pay for it (because the nimrods on the other end of the phone won't do a damn thing if you won't pay for a service call).