Some brands are already ahead of the curve, while others leave the US in the cold.
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America, it’s time to think beyond leather for luxury car seats
- Thread starter JournalBot
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I’m basically vegan but use leather because I was under the impression that there are far more hides than there is demand for leather so buying leather doesn’t incentivize cow production very much. I thought not buying meat is far more impactful.
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I have never cared much for leather in cars. In the summer, they burn your ass up, and in winter, it drops your body temp like 10°. When i went looking a few years ago for a new car, my kids requested i not get leather like in moms car.
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I was hoping you would mention Volvo's wool interior options. We looked at it on the XC40 Recharge but ended up going with the synthetic/microfiber instead due mainly to how it was packaged with other options--couldn't get the wool interior with the black roof for instance. Also the wool doesn't play super well with coarse dog hair from what I hear and we have two dogs so...yeah. That being said we also have an ID.4 which has the VW's synthetic leather type material on the seats and it's been fine--clearly not leather but still pretty reasonable looking and hard-wearing. A plus on the synthetics has been that they're grippier which is nice in turns, etc., though I could see that just as easily being annoying to people.
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The American E36 M3 didn't receive the the S50B30 that the rest of the world received primarily because its cost would have made it less marketable. The closest we came was a very limited run of models that were imported to our friends in Canada.
Lobbying by members of the BMWCCA convinced BMW to give us a version with an enlarged version of the M50B25 -- the S50B30US, which enabled the M3 to retail for about the same ~$35k price of the E30 M3 it succeeded, and it became a success.
The E30 M3 had a hard time competing with the E30 325 models because it was pricier, racier looking, and not that much quicker. The S14B23 was also not as refined, and more demanding in terms of maintenance, making it more of a niche model on the whole. The OG M3's charms would not be fully recognized until later, as reflected in its values now.
The US M3 was updated to the S52B32US in 1996MY, driven by a slight facelift and the adoption of OBD II. It had the same total output, but more torque down low, and arguably not as fun.
It wasn't until 2001, with the E46 M3, that the U.S. got the "real" M engine with the goodies -- individual throttles, more complex head with Double VANOS, etc. in the form of the S54B32-- but that model started at ~$11k higher base price. The late run of 2001 E36 Z3 M Roadsters/Coupes also got that motor.
"Leather = luxury" has always been an American market concept. In the rest of the world, luxury marques like BMW, Mercedes, etc., never had any issues allowing customers to spec cloth interiors.
Lobbying by members of the BMWCCA convinced BMW to give us a version with an enlarged version of the M50B25 -- the S50B30US, which enabled the M3 to retail for about the same ~$35k price of the E30 M3 it succeeded, and it became a success.
The E30 M3 had a hard time competing with the E30 325 models because it was pricier, racier looking, and not that much quicker. The S14B23 was also not as refined, and more demanding in terms of maintenance, making it more of a niche model on the whole. The OG M3's charms would not be fully recognized until later, as reflected in its values now.
The US M3 was updated to the S52B32US in 1996MY, driven by a slight facelift and the adoption of OBD II. It had the same total output, but more torque down low, and arguably not as fun.
It wasn't until 2001, with the E46 M3, that the U.S. got the "real" M engine with the goodies -- individual throttles, more complex head with Double VANOS, etc. in the form of the S54B32-- but that model started at ~$11k higher base price. The late run of 2001 E36 Z3 M Roadsters/Coupes also got that motor.
"Leather = luxury" has always been an American market concept. In the rest of the world, luxury marques like BMW, Mercedes, etc., never had any issues allowing customers to spec cloth interiors.
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Non-leather trims have certainly come a long way since the 90's/2000's econobox mouse fur upholstery and everything else plastic. I think folks have a long memory for the poor wear and stain resistance qualities that those old fabrics had. Same thing can be said about that era's imitation leather.
I still think leather has a place in interiors like the steering wheel, shifters, etc but encourage designers to really go for it when it comes to variety. What we see with Volvo, Rivian, and Lucid at the higher end, and the ford Mavrick and Honda e at the lower end are all encouraging. Also, while we're at it, let's make monochrome interiors less common.
I still think leather has a place in interiors like the steering wheel, shifters, etc but encourage designers to really go for it when it comes to variety. What we see with Volvo, Rivian, and Lucid at the higher end, and the ford Mavrick and Honda e at the lower end are all encouraging. Also, while we're at it, let's make monochrome interiors less common.
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Gosh I never realized that I like leather seats because of my rejection of cruelty-free/sustainable nature; I guess that's what makes me so toxic. Of course I am the most American man imaginable.
Or maybe one of us is just nuts . . .
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What's frustrating is almost every car I look at, when I compare trims, the seat fabric material is not a choice. If you go to higher trims, leather is mandatory! If I'm paying more, shouldn't I get more choice?
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I really prefer cloth seats, so bring them on even if they have to be pretentious about it and call them "textile".
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Well, I don't think we can keep using plastic like we have been, either. I would typically think with clothing, leather is less damaging than plastic in the long run, if used in durable products like coats and bags. Same with car seats.
I think textile alternatives would be great for this purpose too.
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Amen to that. I live in Venezuela. Permanent summer. 29˚C in my city (Caracas), 35˚C in my folks city (maracay), both are the maximums.
I absolutely, positively despise leather, fake leather and Plastic.
Textiles all the way.
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For the love of God can manufacturers not spray that faux leather new car smell (which by my experience they do with real leather too), that makes me nauseous. Maybe it is just all the flame retardants imbued in the car surfaces, whatever the source intentional or a byproduct of safety I dream of a low voc future more than any other car feature. Low voc cloth ++
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i know some people have had issues, but Tesla's pleather is working fine for me. never had an issue with how it feels or wears or cleans-up. and it feels much more like real leather than old-school vinyl did.
if my next, definitely-non-Tesla car, has it i won't be sad.
if my next, definitely-non-Tesla car, has it i won't be sad.
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Sorry. There will be an abundance of leather for the foreseeable future as we live in a bovine economy.
every material has consequences
every material has consequences
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I meant cow leather, not foxes, minks, etc. Nitpicking my terminology is also pointless. Everyone understood what I meant. We gotta save our energy for eradicating animal agriculture, not picking on each other.
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Just don't buy fake leather. A car might last twenty years, but fake leather is unlikely to last half that.
The last time we bought a new sedan, we ended up choosing a Mazda 6 even though neither my wife nor I would have guessed that Mazda would be in the top couple of choices. We would have bought their mid tier instead of the base model, but the mid tier came only in fake leather - no leather or fabric option.
The last time we bought a new sedan, we ended up choosing a Mazda 6 even though neither my wife nor I would have guessed that Mazda would be in the top couple of choices. We would have bought their mid tier instead of the base model, but the mid tier came only in fake leather - no leather or fabric option.
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But but but my rich Corinthian leather!
I honestly don't care what the material in my car is, I just want it to be comfortable, attractive, and durable. But there are some who feel a luxury car is not luxury unless it's swathed in leather, thanks to decades of marketing.
I honestly don't care what the material in my car is, I just want it to be comfortable, attractive, and durable. But there are some who feel a luxury car is not luxury unless it's swathed in leather, thanks to decades of marketing.
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Look, I'd prefer any kind of sustainable material, just as long as there isn't too much friction with my clothes and I can easily clean up all of the messes that my kids make. That's pretty much it for my requirements, but it seems that in the US only leather/pleather are able to meet those requirements, especially the friction one.
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Statistical
Ars Legatus Legionis
Yeah and nobody is killing cows for leather and throwing away the $4k to $6k worth of beef. As long as Americans are eating beef multiple times a week there is going to be a near endless supply of leather.
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I still remember the sound of sizzling human flesh. This was in Houston. Our boss was taking a few of us to lunch. He had a black car with black leather seats and no window tinting (he'd bought it up in Minnesota IIRC). We were contractors and he'd driven over from his office a few blocks away. One of my co-workers was wearing a skirt. As she scooted into the back seat, we all heard the sizzle of her leg hitting the hot leather. Fabric won't do that.
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Leather never made sense, but instead of using cloth, the industry wanted to extract more money out of buyers so they added heated (and cooled) leather seats, because those are the biggest problems with leather: too hot in the summer, too cold in the winter.
Textiles? Sure! Great idea! Wool? Yes. Linen? Yes. Both tough as nails. Linen doesn't even take up stains because it doesn't take dye well. Win/win.
Plastic (even recycled or microfiber or whatever fancy name you want): Big no.
And 'no' also to fabric blends. Because even if they're 90% natural fibers today, within 10 years you know they'll be 95% polyester, 4% elastane, and 1% wool/linen/cotton.
Textiles? Sure! Great idea! Wool? Yes. Linen? Yes. Both tough as nails. Linen doesn't even take up stains because it doesn't take dye well. Win/win.
Plastic (even recycled or microfiber or whatever fancy name you want): Big no.
And 'no' also to fabric blends. Because even if they're 90% natural fibers today, within 10 years you know they'll be 95% polyester, 4% elastane, and 1% wool/linen/cotton.
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Please cite your sources.
It's generally accepted that something close to half of cattle hides are discarded (depending on the source, maybe 40%, maybe higher).
https://customcy.com/blog/leather-industry-statistics/
https://www.leathernaturally.org/re...inds-using-leather-does-not-mean-more-cattle/
I fully acknowledge that the second link's study was funded by the Leather Council and thus may have a conflict of interest, but it's still data.
The USDA indicates that cow hides are practically a negligible value in cattle production:
https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/news/column...lso issues a weekly,a typical 1,100-pound cow.
Cattle are not being slaughtered for their skin. It is not economically viable. If that were the case, the value of hide would be higher and we wouldn't be throwing away 40% of the hides.
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Yeah same.
My Mazda has some sort of 'leather' but I can't imagine it's real as it's just a Mazda and I wasn't looking for it.
Car before had some spandex type weave material which was fine.
Before that was some sort of fabric/textile that was fine.
Before that......
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Sorry, no.
You want the better headlights and cross-traffic sensors for safety? Only way to get them is to pay $5000 for a package that includes twenty-one inch wheels, leather, and a vape-shop LED lighting package.
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Of course, the quickest biggest win would be smaller vehicles with fewer seats.
Or what about if you're worried about dog/kid stains, have the front seats in linen or wool (or both), and the back seats (or wayback seats) in plastic/faux leather?
Before leather (I'm dating myself here), weren't "velour" seats the luxury seats? Fabric seats were so comfy.
Edit: Dang, beat by seconds to the velour. And mobby_6ki even had a great meme to go with it, lol.
Or what about if you're worried about dog/kid stains, have the front seats in linen or wool (or both), and the back seats (or wayback seats) in plastic/faux leather?
Before leather (I'm dating myself here), weren't "velour" seats the luxury seats? Fabric seats were so comfy.
Edit: Dang, beat by seconds to the velour. And mobby_6ki even had a great meme to go with it, lol.
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I love old volvo seats. It's leather (or something like it) on the side (where you slide when getting into the seat) and fabric where you actually sit. Gets you best of both worlds. Easy and durable getting in and out, while not sweating/freezing your ass off.
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Oh man. That’s a stretch and a half. Leather demand is tied to durability, heritage manufacturing, workwear, automotive, luxury goods, and yes fashion. Plenty of women buy leather. Plenty of men buy vegan products. Plenty of people choose leather because it lasts 20+ years and doesn’t crack or delaminate like some synthetics. You can argue sustainability or ethics without turning it into a culture war personality diagnosis. Not everything is a masculinity crisis. Sometimes it’s just material preference.
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Personally I don't like leather seats, even though I prefer them over a lot of "standard" cloth seats.
I would generally prefer a comfortable cloth seat, but I have a dog, which often is a disaster of trying to extract hair that's been embedded into the weave of the cloth.
My current car has a synthetic seat which has a lot of the same downsides of leather - tends to be hot in the summer and cold in the winter, and isn't super breathable - but my experience is that it handles scuffing (e.g. dog nails) better than leather, and has the upsides of being easy to clean like leather, including wiping dog hair off.
I'd love more options. Mostly the trim packages are so heavily bundled that you don't get a lot of options even if you want them. My dad was just complaining that he wanted a sunroof but literally couldn't get it without the leather trim.
I would generally prefer a comfortable cloth seat, but I have a dog, which often is a disaster of trying to extract hair that's been embedded into the weave of the cloth.
My current car has a synthetic seat which has a lot of the same downsides of leather - tends to be hot in the summer and cold in the winter, and isn't super breathable - but my experience is that it handles scuffing (e.g. dog nails) better than leather, and has the upsides of being easy to clean like leather, including wiping dog hair off.
I'd love more options. Mostly the trim packages are so heavily bundled that you don't get a lot of options even if you want them. My dad was just complaining that he wanted a sunroof but literally couldn't get it without the leather trim.
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Everyone has their preferences as do I, but what really grinds my gears is the green-washing of plastic by calling it "vegan leather".
As mentioned by others, we're not killing cows for leather which leads me to believe the push is by oil companies to position their product as the more environmentally friendly or sustainable alternative using misleading language and outright lies.
As mentioned by others, we're not killing cows for leather which leads me to believe the push is by oil companies to position their product as the more environmentally friendly or sustainable alternative using misleading language and outright lies.
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Yup. When I was buying mine and we were talking about trim levels, the top levels were leather only and I said that was a non-starter. Not an ethical stance from me, I just think it looks better and won't burn me in the summer.
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