US accuses China of “industrial-scale” AI theft. China says it’s “slander.”
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The Valley beat them to it – “we steal from the Ich, and give to the bros”.
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It should be entertaining to watch the insider trading as this unfolds...and refolds...and gets torn up...and taped back together...you know, the usual refined, useful focus from the current regime.
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They are not altruists.
I'd be looking behind the curtains for the data mining tools. If they're not there now, they will be in a future update.
China does nothing that doesn't benefit China.
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They've gotten better at hiding it (Chinese models no longer admit to being chatGPT) but they never stopped. The upshot is that Chinese theft means the masses get access to models almost as powerful as frontier ones on their own hardware. Censorship can be removed with abliteration.
As to why - if you can't beat your opponent outright, you can try to undermine them in other ways.
As to why - if you can't beat your opponent outright, you can try to undermine them in other ways.
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And if this is a "national security" issue or some such, then why is the government not restricting access to foreign nationals in general like other sensitive technology? I mean, that would totally ruin the growth numbers and dramatically restrict the customer base, but it's supposed to be one way or the other. Otherwise, it's kinda hard to protect someone offering services to anyone with a credit card that works (and some with just an email).
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Yeah. Like, if they're stealing and it's working, steal back. The end result is better for the consumer if it doesn't result in a drop in R&D, and a lot of that is Federally supported anyways.
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IP is still very "Experimental" in China, see attached 
. On the other hand all the existing AI are based on scraping the entire Internet without bothering about IP. And when, for commercial reasons, you are pushing models aggressively without considering much about security, it is difficult to complain when someone exploits your greed.
. On the other hand all the existing AI are based on scraping the entire Internet without bothering about IP. And when, for commercial reasons, you are pushing models aggressively without considering much about security, it is difficult to complain when someone exploits your greed.Attachments
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Did we return the tax of 1 silver coin per chinese head, plus decades interest, from when we booted them?
How many countries did they boots on the ground since 1970? Three vs 150?
I found a global survey which measured that Americans view the Chinese with half as good positive judgement as other westerners and five times worse than most other nations.
It's because of the effect of super power friction on media indoctrination...
How many countries did they boots on the ground since 1970? Three vs 150?
I found a global survey which measured that Americans view the Chinese with half as good positive judgement as other westerners and five times worse than most other nations.
It's because of the effect of super power friction on media indoctrination...
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He's going to cut off the U.S.'s soybean exports to China. Like how he closed the Strait of Hormuz to force Iran to surrender for closing the Strait of Hormuz.
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Why allow Nvidia to sell chips to China and then freak out when China starts to get good at AI? Some consistency would be great.
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The cool thing about training models in the cloud is that you can train them anywhere on earth reachable by internet. The chips can stay in the US and still be useful.
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The USA is not slowing them down they’re speeding them up. All the sanctions/crying are just causing the Chinese to move faster, and the current memory fiasco it’s going to make it easier for the Chinese to capture a large portion of the memory market worldwide ala BYD.
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Nixon and Kissinger and the American oligarchs should’ve left them alone in 1972 1973, but greed got the better of them, it’s too late now to cry…..
Can we turn it around maybe? But it’ll take a much smarter administration than the current one in place now an administration that is incredibly stupid. I’m sure I’m not the only one, but I am completely tired of them. I find myself wishing for any administration but this one I am completely exhausted….
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AI companies crying about IP theft. Do mirrors come to USA through Hormuz or something?
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The horse is out of the barn.
Whatever Congress may or may not decide: There will no American Google- or Facebook - equivalent dominating the internet in the AI world. Too many competitors.
Whatever Congress may or may not decide: There will no American Google- or Facebook - equivalent dominating the internet in the AI world. Too many competitors.
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Of course they copy. Every country coming from behind has done that along the years.
Chine itself now has several areas where they are the ones who need to start looking at their back.
Chine itself now has several areas where they are the ones who need to start looking at their back.
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you just don't know how to parse that sentence properly. much like there's all sorts of shit in their constitution about freedom of speech, etc.
anyway, they would just point to the lengths the foreigners went to smuggle tea (seeds and plants) out from china not quite 200 years ago to grow their own tea.
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SubWoofer2
Ars Tribunus Militum
Hmm. Should my author friends expect payment in recompense from the Chinese?
Should they expect it from the Americans?
Will they get anything, from anyone?
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I would argue the original industrial revolution in England was entirely "home grown". From steam power to blast furnaces, it was all developed in England (Not to say there wasn't a lot of political intrigue and IP theft WITHIN England, but still all of it was within England). I would also take issue with the statement the US surpassed England on steam tech.
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Thank you. I have been pointing this out for a while, but I didn't have a good reference. Also, technology sharing was a requirement for entry into the China market. Western companies accepted that. Personally I think the West should now be trying to make the same arrangements in reverse. We could do with learning from their innovations.
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I think it is more complex than that. Technology transfer was part of the deal for Western Companies to invest in China and to benefit (massively) from cheaper manufacturing (and also improvements in manufacturing that were generated natively). There have been some clearly egregious cases, but they have been litigated.
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Is there a term when you steal something that was stolen?
Regardless, better download the Chinese local AI models ASAP, Hugging Face is hosted in the US.
Interesting timing too, DeepSeek V4 was just released.
Regardless, better download the Chinese local AI models ASAP, Hugging Face is hosted in the US.
Interesting timing too, DeepSeek V4 was just released.
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But the question is - was there actual theft or is it just that DeepSeek and other non-US models have become almost as good or better (depending on use case)?
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So true. What a joke all this has been. Better for the planet to steal it I suppose instead of start from scratch to do the same thing by stealing lots of other people's data.
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The problem with Chinese AI is that it is going to be a lot cheaper than our AI. Which means that the hundreds of billions already torched here, are not going to be economical. Of course, outside Techbro FantasyLand, that was true anyway, but now, when the bills come in, and the size of the losses becomes fully apparent, a lot of people are going to be making the BS claim that, but for Chinese theft we would all be rich. Not just the pump and dumpers.
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"Oh, hai, if I set shop in China, I will profit even more, costing my country jobs, dilapidating its industrial base and increasing poverty."
"You are very welcome, but half of your base are belong to us, and your know-how and skills."
"No problem, I will profit handsomely for a few short years."
How rich to complain about industrial theft and espionage when the West keeps believing that making "totalitarian countries rich will bring democracy", or whatever the excuse was.
The greedy complaining about the greedy.
"You are very welcome, but half of your base are belong to us, and your know-how and skills."
"No problem, I will profit handsomely for a few short years."
How rich to complain about industrial theft and espionage when the West keeps believing that making "totalitarian countries rich will bring democracy", or whatever the excuse was.
The greedy complaining about the greedy.
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I gotta think US companies are doing the same thing, especially since there is no law against it. Why wouldnt they? Why would anyone think they dont?
edit: and dont say "IP theft is illegal". Reverse engineering is totally legal.
edit2: maybe this is a case of "every accusation is a confession".
edit: and dont say "IP theft is illegal". Reverse engineering is totally legal.
edit2: maybe this is a case of "every accusation is a confession".
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Given that the US seems hellbent on becoming a failed pariah state and its AI companies are running on virtual revenue, China copying their stuff may and putting it available for all may not be such a bad thing after all.
Maybe we should call it a salvage operation. /s
Maybe we should call it a salvage operation. /s
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As an author who published a number technical business books with unique concepts and ideas, I know with 100% certainty that my books were used to train all of the big AI models out there. It does give me some small pleasure to see the AI giants fall foul of the same disregard for copyright that they exhibited.
The only frustration is that 'little people' like me, who spent literally years creating carefully designed copyright content, are being completely ignored by the UK and US governments and legal systems. I'm aware there are some class-actions in flight, but there is zero indication that politicians regard this as actual theft.
The only frustration is that 'little people' like me, who spent literally years creating carefully designed copyright content, are being completely ignored by the UK and US governments and legal systems. I'm aware there are some class-actions in flight, but there is zero indication that politicians regard this as actual theft.
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I assume that's not in the way Elon's "heart goes out to" CPAC.
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if Trump were a standard republican or democrat, we could probably figure out the answer by answering the question 'did the AI firms sponsor his presidential campaign and/or sponsor his inauguration?'
But Trump isn't a standard US politician, he's even more greedy and more openly corrupt. So did a Trump family member get a sweet cushy "job" at an AI firm? Did the firms pay a tithe? is it a continuous payment? How is the gambling market handling this news?
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US AI companies: we'll hoover up everyone's work, and we DGAF about their consent.
Also US AI companies: how dare anyone steal our work!!!!????
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