Water utility announces it’s ditching fluoride—then reveals it did so years ago

Madestjohn

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Right, his third campaign. Going to edit to correct. Thanks.
.. sorry more than three
TLDR
.. did look it up .. still don’t know actual count

from wikipedia ;

1988 presidential election​

Trump first floated the idea of running for president in 1987,[46] placing full-page advertisements in three major newspapers, proclaiming "America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves."[47] The advertisements advocated for "reducing the budget deficit, working for peace in Central America, and speeding up nuclear disarmament negotiations with the Soviet Union".[48] DCCC chair Rep. Beryl Anthony Jr. told The New York Times that "the message Trump has been preaching is a Democratic message." Asked whether rumors of a presidential candidacy were true, Trump denied being a candidate but said, "I believe that if I did run for President, I'd win."[48] In 1988, he approached Lee Atwater asking to be put into consideration as Republican nominee George H. W. Bush's running mate. Bush found the request "strange and unbelievable."[49] According to a Gallup poll in December 1988, Trump was the tenth most admired man in America.[50][51]

2000 presidential campaign​

Main article: Donald Trump 2000 presidential campaign
In 1999, Trump formed an exploratory committee to seek the nomination of the Reform Party for the 2000 presidential election.[52][53] A July 1999 poll matching him against likely Republican nominee George W. Bush and likely Democratic nominee Al Gore showed Trump with seven percent support.[54] Trump eventually dropped out of the race, but still went on to win the Reform Party primaries in California and Michigan.[53][55] After his run, he left the party due to the involvement of David Duke, Pat Buchanan, and Lenora Fulani.[52] He also considered running for president in 2004.[56] In 2008, after endorsing Democrat Hillary Clinton in the primary, he endorsed Republican John McCain for president in the general election.[57][58]

2012 presidential election​

Trump speaking at the Conservative Political Action Conference, February 2011
Trump publicly speculated about running for president in the 2012 election, and made his first speaking appearance at the Conservative Political Action Conference(CPAC) in February 2011. The speech is credited for helping kick-start his political career within the Republican Party.[59] On May 16, 2011, Trump announced he would not run for president in the 2012 election, putting an end to what he described as "unofficially campaigning".[1] In February 2012, Trump endorsed Mitt Romney for president.[60]

Trump's presidential ambitions were generally not taken seriously at the time.[61]Trump's moves were interpreted by some media as possible promotional tools for his reality show The Apprentice.[1][62][63] Before the 2016 election, The New York Times speculated that Trump "accelerated his ferocious efforts to gain stature within the political world" after the then U.S. president Barack Obama lampooned him at the White House Correspondents' Association Dinner in April 2011.[64]

In 2011, according to Evan Jones, the headmaster of the New York Military Academy at the time, the then-superintendent Jeffrey Coverdale had demanded Trump's academic records, to hand them over to "prominent, wealthy alumni of the school who were Mr. Trump's friends" at their request. Coverdale said he had refused to hand over Trump's records to trustees of the school, and instead sealed Trump's records on campus. Jones said: "It was the only time in my education career that I ever heard of someone's record being removed." Coverdale further said: "It's the only time I ever moved an alumnus's records." The incident reportedly happened days after Trump demanded Obama's academic records.[65]

Political activities between 2013–2015​

In 2013, Trump spoke at CPAC again;[66] he railed against illegal immigration, bemoaned Obama's "unprecedented media protection", advised against harming Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, and suggested that the government "take" Iraq's oil and use the proceeds to pay a million dollars each to families of dead soldiers.[67][68]

In October 2013, New York Republicans circulated a memo suggesting Trump should run for governor of the state in 2014 against Andrew Cuomo. Trump responded that while New York had problems and its taxes were too high, he was not interested in the governorship.[69] A February 2014 Quinnipiac poll had shown Trump losing to the more popular Cuomo by 37 points in a hypothetical election.[70]
 
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I will keep repeating this. Down here in Belgium, they do not add fluoride to the water. Our teeth are fine. No the water is not naturally high in fluoride. We have dental care that is payed back by government. No it does not mean we have dozens of cavities that need to be filled. We just brush our teeth two times a day with tooth paste with plenty of fluoride. What does make a difference in my own experience? Less soda.

This usually fills my message box with tons of replies. Of course I may be missing something. Some people did argue well that some nuance was missing. They are right. A lot of others just had trouble seeing beyond black and white. To those people, do not respond immediately. Wait a day.

Here goes nothing.
So you still get just as much fluoride, except via a different source. Most toothpaste and mouthwash in the US doesn't include it because it is assumed that we get it though the public drinking water.
 
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Madestjohn

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Doesn't salt eventually wash out of the soil and it becomes fertile again?

I think ancient armies used salt because it would cause a couple years of starvation and economic collapse so that you could wipe out your enemy and take their land, and then move your own farmers on it and they could work it again after a couple years?

Edit: Google says this is largely mythological - salt was too valuable to spread on large areas of farmland.
If it can wash out .. without washing out soil as well
eventually … salt can be very persistent
 
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So here's a control for what happens when we stop the fluoride. So what happened? Are dentists in Alabama overworked? Are Alabamans suddenly beholden to free thought?
Most Alabamans are too poor to afford regular healthcare, let alone "luxury" healthcare like dental visits, so no. That doesn't prove anything.
 
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Derecho Imminent

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This sounds like some weird, localized marketing backwash - especially given that so much bottle water is, in fact, just tap water. But in a bottle.
Bottled water is typically filtered more than tap water. Tap is fine, but bottled is generally NOT just tap water in bottles. Thats propaganda by people that believe we shouldnt use so much plastic. They may have a point about use of plastic but it doesnt help their case to make up stories about the water in it.
 
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Madestjohn

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I ALMOST said "salt the earth", but I went with "blight" because at least salt has health benefits.
But “blight” can at least get you high .. if you extend the definition to Ergot
Unfortunately its apparently universally a pretty bad trip if we go by historical accounts, and that episode of Quincy on the cruise ship.
 
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But “blight” can at least get you high .. if you extend the definition to Ergot
Unfortunately its apparently universally a pretty bad trip if we go by historical accounts, and that episode of Quincy on the cruise ship.
Never heard of blight the drug, but of course one would have been called that at some point. Still, I'll accept that. These people have put the whole U.S. in an altered state of consciousness for years and deluded us in the process.
 
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Madestjohn

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Never heard of blight the drug, but of course one would have been called that at some point. Still, I'll accept that. These people have put the whole U.S. in an altered state of consciousness for years and deluded us in the process.
To overly explain a casual joke .. and placate the pedantic monkey on my back
‘Blight’ or more specifically Fusarium ear blight, is a fungal disease of cereals, including wheat, barley, oats, and rye that rapidly effects the ‘head’ of crops as opposed to “rust” which is slower and effects photosynthesis of whole plant - leaving a reddish stain hence rust.
Ergot is a fungus that also infects cereals crops but more classically the grain after harvest .. its also known to produce LSD (maybe as a by product) but this isn’t clean ‘acid’ Think bad high school science bathtub syd
.. basically a guaranteed bad trip especially when ingested by someone unaware of whats happening to them.
and has historically been linked to the occasion outbreak of mass hysteria / madness

In one episode in old TV show Quincy the source of the ergot .. and resulting madness was the bowl the taco salad was served in on a cruise-ship which was made from wheat and supposedly edible
 
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exregis

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Dental health in locations that do fluoridate their water versus those that don't are pretty stark. I'm sure it's a boon for business for dentists in the latter.
Not necessarily. The folks who need floride the most are exactly those who cannot afford dentists. Pro bono and dental care don't usually go together.
 
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To overly explain a casual joke .. and placate the pedantic monkey on my back
‘Blight’ or more specifically Fusarium ear blight, is a fungal disease of cereals, including wheat, barley, oats, and rye that rapidly effects the ‘head’ of crops as opposed to “rust” which is slower and effects photosynthesis of whole plant - leaving a reddish stain hence rust.
Ergot is a fungus that also infects cereals crops but more classically the grain after harvest .. its also known to produce LSD (maybe as a by product) but this isn’t clean ‘acid’ Think bad high school science bathtub syd
.. basically a guaranteed bad trip especially when ingested by someone unaware of whats happening to them.
and has historically been linked to the occasion outbreak of mass hysteria / madness

In one episode in old TV show Quincy the source of the ergot .. and resulting madness was the bowl the taco salad was served in on a cruise-ship which was made from wheat and supposedly edible
Oh, like in that movie the VVITCH!
 
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Madestjohn

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Oh, like in that movie the VVITCH!
Yes .. but not the THE WITCH

A Korean action/scifi movie
(actually series of films)
1774977588444.png

That was a bunch of chemically enhanced psychic children soldier/assassins created by multiple competing secret government and corporate programs


They are a fun watch though
 

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Carlos Sempere

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I work at a water district in California where state law requires that we add fluoride. We already did before that requirement took effect, and the older dentists here say they could tell which of their customers lived in our service area. Untreated cavities can lead to some pretty nasty health problems so it makes a difference.

It's not cheap, though, and it isn't part of our core mission so I can see why a utility would see it as a way to cut costs. But doing it in secret is wild.

Curious, why is water seem to be seen as the only possible solution? Here in Uruguay we have fluoridated salt instead and it works just fine.
We're mostly just used to it. And we think water's better because the amount people drink varies a lot less than people's salt intake. Especially among kids.
 
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SixDegrees

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"noted that people can buy toothpaste [...] that contain fluoride to protect their teeth."

Isn't it common to buy with fluoride in the US?
Depends. I've used a fluoride toothpaste for years to help with temperature sensitive teeth. It works very well for that, the Plain Old Toothpaste I used to use didn't, but I'm not sure if that had fluoride or just had less of it.
 
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Mrbonk

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Hope citizens get together and sue them too.
Rules for thee, not for me.


Also isn't it hilarious how these people twist themselves into justifying removing a a flouro compound that is actually safe from their water and at the same time refuse to remove all the forever flourinated and related chemicals from water at the same time.
 
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Common Not universal
This is ridiculous. Just educate your population already and give them decently paid jobs so they can afford toothpaste with fluoride. Also if you don't have it already introduce regular fluoride gurgling in primary schools.

But I guess you don't want your tax dollars to be spent on free healthcare so it's cheaper to just turn your water supply into a chemical cesspool of fluoride, bleach and lead.
 
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Madestjohn

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This is ridiculous. Just educate your population already and give them decently paid jobs so they can afford toothpaste with fluoride. Also if you don't have it already introduce regular fluoride gurgling in primary schools.

But I guess you don't want your tax dollars to be spent on free healthcare so it's cheaper to just turn your water supply into a cesspool of fluoride, bleach and lead.
… first of all Not my population
Secondly care to reveal yours so we can all mock their ridiculous traditions tendencies and government policies in return?

Look .. I greatly enjoy mocking ‘Americans’, .. I’m actually dual by birth and partially grew up there so I feel thats allowable
And god knows Americans in general deserve mockery .. and stereotypes are stereotypes for some reason

But come on …

This has been done
Low hanging fruit is one thing .. eating the stuff thats fallen and rotten on the ground is another.

Lets do ourselves a favour
Lets be more ambitious and choose a (slightly) higher road for our mockery
 
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NetMage

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I also don't get why some people like to floss first. If I brush first, there's essentially no debris left when I floss, which makes it much less of a chore. If I floss first, I'm constantly cleaning off the floss and it's gross and time consuming.
If you floss first, you not only clean what the floss can get, you also loosen up what’s left so that brushing can finish the job. If you do it the other way around, brushing gets the loose matter and flossing won’t get much because the easy stuff was removed by brushing. Consider using things like Plackers Flossers that you rinse between teeth and throw away after use. Or a GUM Proxabrush that you rinse.
 
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SixDegrees

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If you floss first, you not only clean what the floss can get, you also loosen up what’s left so that brushing can finish the job. If you do it the other way around, brushing gets the loose matter and flossing won’t get much because the easy stuff was removed by brushing. Consider using things like Plackers Flossers that you rinse between teeth and throw away after use. Or a GUM Proxabrush that you rinse.
Just to add: water flossers do a really excellent job here compared to string floss. A typical trip for a cleaning for me was about 20 mildly unpleasant minutes. After using a water flosser, that's down to 10 minutes of...basically almost nothing, with final polishing (and string flossing, go figure) taking most of that time.

Advice is the same as yours: use the flosser first, then brush.
 
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Mrbonk

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Not necessarily. The folks who need floride the most are exactly those who cannot afford dentists. Pro bono and dental care don't usually go together.
And even if you have dental coverage it's still expensive AF if you need anything more than a cleaning. (Had to cancel prep for a cap last year as the estimate with insurance was too much)And claiming toothpaste is enough is dumb because that means you assume the kid and parents both have good hygiene habits. (And the toothpaste actually has a clinically significant amount in it to make a difference and whether the correct amount was used. 5000PPM Flouride toothpaste is prescription only in the US. Your dentist may be able to sell you some too. But that's an additional barrier)
My parents tried really hard when I was a kid but I struggled with dental hygiene and I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if the water hadn't been flouridated.
As an adult, turning 35 soon I am still struggling with gum health specifically and because of gingivitis I get 1-2 additional cleanings a year compared to most people. And that costs $$$.
 
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Is concern over precious bodily fluids still a good indicator?
I think the ranting about fluoride is still a good indicator, but re your question, it was adrenochrome the Satanist Democratic pedo cabal was supposedly after, harvested from children's pineal glands or some such weird malarkey.

I'd say that's a good indicator of madness.
 
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adespoton

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I spent the first 20 years of my life on an unfluoridated water supply. I also used fluoridated toothpaste, and went to the dentist every 6 months and got my teeth fluoride pasted.

I suspect that my 0 cavity record (and that of siblings) was due to good dental health. Being on well water, there also wasn't chlorine in the water, which also likely had an effect.

Saying all that, in a region where not everyone will be using fluoridated toothpaste and not everyone has access to proper dental care, fluoridated water seems like a no-brainer. Only the rich and educated have the option to protect their teeth via other means.
 
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SeanJW

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Depending on the aquifer, some well water has sufficient levels of fluoride naturally, some doesn't. At one remote site where I worked for many years, the well water that we used daily was actually over-blessed with fluoride, and we were forced to bring in water from an outside source for drinking. My own rural residential well is down-gradient from that particular site, and while it's not over the limit, we do have abundant natural fluoride in it. Some of us rural poors get lucky.

I vaguely recall there's a city out there where the drinking water has elevated (but safe) levels of lithium (used for treating bipolar amongst other things), and their crime rate is statistically lower.

Sometimes water supply is just lucky. Pure doesn't always mean perfect.

Edit: There we go, found literature on it.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7576670/

Not that I'm a SME, so I won't comment on the accuracy - there may be plenty of countervailing results that I'm not equipped to discover. But it's been researched.

Edit 2: Apparently happens a lot in Texas as well as Japan. Couldn't think of a better place to drug the water supply to make the residents more docile (may as well use the paranoid dipshit description of it, because I'm damned sure some lunatic on the internet would anyway)
 
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SeanJW

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This sounds like some weird, localized marketing backwash - especially given that so much bottle water is, in fact, just tap water. But in a bottle.

I'm not on the west coast, but I drink tap water all the time and never buy bottled water except sometimes for road trips. If I want, I can pull up quarterly reports on water testing for my area, there are no problems with it, when local issues arise they are all over the news and get resolved quickly.

Bottled water typically is just tap water - where the tap water meets reasonable standards. Not all water supplies are reliable as Flint found out the hard way.

Edit: And the bottled water companies don't set up excessive filtering usually. They just bottle it in huge quantities where the government has already done the work and ship it whereever. Why duplicate labour?
 
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silverboy

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My late Mom was a dentist. She started practicing at around the time Dr. Strangelove was released, in which film a fluoride conspiracist is portrayed as a bug-eyed lunatic. And theatre audiences laughed. Because it was ridiculous. This shit was thoroughly evaluated as paranoid nonsense over SIXTY YEARS AGO. What is even happening?
This reminds me of how neo-Nazis and similar extremists used to be the butt of jokes in mainstream comedies, like The Blues Brothers.

And yet, here we are. I would like to have those days back. Or at least that side of them...
 
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Madestjohn

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Bottled water typically is just tap water - where the tap water meets reasonable standards. Not all water supplies are reliable as Flint found out the hard way.

Edit: And the bottled water companies don't set up excessive filtering usually. They just bottle it in huge quantities where the government has already done the work and ship it whereever. Why duplicate labour?
Always find it an amusing tale that coke charged more for the water from its bottling plants without any burnt sugar added to it
than they did for the cola
 
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SeanJW

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Always find it an amusing tale that coke charged more for the water from its bottling plants without any burnt sugar added to it
than they did for the cola

Most of the cost is in the packaging and shipping I think. It's far cheaper to buy in bulk.

Edit: Damned supermarkets not selling it at pumps....
 
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llanitedave

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I vaguely recall there's a city out there where the drinking water has elevated (but safe) levels of lithium (used for treating bipolar amongst other things), and their crime rate is statistically lower.

Sometimes water supply is just lucky. Pure doesn't always mean perfect.

Edit: There we go, found literature on it.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7576670/

Not that I'm a SME, so I won't comment on the accuracy - there may be plenty of countervailing results that I'm not equipped to discover. But it's been researched.

Edit 2: Apparently happens a lot in Texas as well as Japan. Couldn't think of a better place to drug the water supply to make the residents more docile (may as well use the paranoid dipshit description of it, because I'm damned sure some lunatic on the internet would anyway)
It would make sense that elevated levels of lithium and fluoride in water are correlated. They are both hosted by granitic and felsic volcanic rocks, so aquifers that are hosted by those rocks may have some of each. Not all granites or rhyolites are equal, however, and their concentrations of each element are highly variable.
 
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