Russian launch pad incident raises concerns about future of space station

Mandella

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nomoroto

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Having never owned a vehicle with an automatic transmission, I can confidently say that I have not. Now, neutral... Yeah, that almost got bad.
I’ve owned and driven a car with an automatic transmission that did not have a “Park” function, a 1955 DeSoto Firedome. You could also start it in (any) gear, so stationary operation was much like a manual transmission.
 
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_crane

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Can you squeeze a Progress inside the payload bay of an expendable Starship? Explosive bolts to remove the upper hull, and Bob's your uncle.
Starship is not yet actually operational. Also, Progress is approximately the robotic equivalent of Soyuz (the spacecraft,) and similarly normally launches on Soyuz (the rocket.) It's not exactly an enormous payload.
 
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Typical Russia, some drunk Popov f*cked up.

Good. The faster this nightmare place crumbles to nothingness, the better for Humankind.

I honestly have nothing but complete and absolute hatred for Russia, its leaders, its people and its "culture".

It is all fully twisted and rotten.

Russia is basically the upside down of Earth.
 
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adespoton

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Not to be facetious, but I don’t see a reason why a launch couldn’t be made from the pad using scaffold for the access, and accepting that it’s going to be destroyed and require post launch cleanup. There’s nothing valuable down there a scaffold pole could damage now that they’ve destroyed it all.

It’s not a long term solution but it could tide over 1 to 2 launches until a new service frame is fabricated and ready to install. Or a spare recovered and refurbished.

Edit: just to acknowledge its not great timing today to talk about destruction of scaffold, in case anyone is bothered by it.
Considering they're launching every 8 months and will only be launching the vehicle until 2030... that's roughly 6 launches they still need this configuration for. So the most affordable configuration over this timeframe makes the most sense, whether that be 6 scaffolds, 2 scaffolds and a platform, scaling back the number of launches, or something else.
 
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adespoton

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JFC, can we just de-orbit the ISS and stop working with the Russians already? The ISS has cost well over $100 billion so far. That's over 10x the cost of the (horrendously expensive!) JWST, to produce a tiny, tiny fraction of the science.
It was about more than pure science; it was also science politics and scientific focus/funding. Of course, those are already significantly damaged at this point as well, so....
 
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The problem isn't boosting the station, it's attitude control. The ISS uses gyros for most of its attitude control, but they need to be occasionally desaturated. And a mix of Progress and Zarya (or maybe Zvezda) are used for that. If Progress can't fly, they can't do it. So that leaves Zarya, but that needs to be refuelled, by Progress.....
There's another way to desaturate the gyros and that's to turn them off and do a flip.
 
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diabol1k

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“The launch pad was inspected, as is done every time a rocket is launched. Damage to several launch pad components was identified. Damage can occur after launch, so such inspections are mandatory worldwide. The launch pad’s condition is currently being assessed.”

translation:
“The launch pad was inspected, as is done every time a rocket is launched. Damage to several launch pad components was identified. Damage can occur after launch, but only if you F something up, so such inspections are mandatory worldwide. The launch pad’s condition is currently being assessed, someone will be leaving the facility shortly to make their Eastbound train."
 
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All a momentum dump supplies is a torque on the station to counter the torque generated by spinning down the gyros. If one can provide a vehicle to reboost the station by thrusting in the right direction through the stations CoM, then one likely can provide the requisite torque by firing thrusters NOT through the CoM. With clusters of thrusters positioned not directly in a line with the CoM, it really only should only requires varying the pulse duty cycle of some of them to get the job done.
So next question, is there a port conveniently positioned that would let you thrust into it and provide the appropriate torque to the station?
Trying to put energy into the station from a docked vehicle via a docking ring in anything other than a pretty direct axial path sounds like galloping way out of spec for the loads/load vectors they're meant to handle. So if there wouldn't be a docking port in the correct position to provide the correct torque to the station, I don't see using a docked vessel to desaturate working.
Honestly if we're kludging together a one or very few time use 'solution' to get the station through until they either fix their shit, or just to 2030, a modified Dragon/Cygnus with the appropriate connecter to be able to refuel the Russian side is probably the technicaly simplest solution, just the pesky politics of paying for, building and flying such a mission to deal with...
 
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EllPeaTea

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So next question, is there a port conveniently positioned that would let you thrust into it and provide the appropriate torque to the station?
Trying to put energy into the station from a docked vehicle via a docking ring in anything other than a pretty direct axial path sounds like galloping way out of spec for the loads/load vectors they're meant to handle. So if there wouldn't be a docking port in the correct position to provide the correct torque to the station, I don't see using a docked vessel to desaturate working.
Honestly if we're kludging together a one or very few time use 'solution' to get the station through until they either fix their shit, or just to 2030, a modified Dragon/Cygnus with the appropriate connecter to be able to refuel the Russian side is probably the technicaly simplest solution, just the pesky politics of paying for, building and flying such a mission to deal with...
US node 1 has a nadir berthing port. If you want a centrally located craft, then stick a modified Cygnus there. Only potential downside is that thruster firings from there might impinge on Rassvet and any Soyuz docked there. (But that may be less of a problem if the Russians can’t launch anything).
 
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_crane

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So next question, is there a port conveniently positioned that would let you thrust into it and provide the appropriate torque to the station?
Trying to put energy into the station from a docked vehicle via a docking ring in anything other than a pretty direct axial path sounds like galloping way out of spec for the loads/load vectors they're meant to handle. So if there wouldn't be a docking port in the correct position to provide the correct torque to the station, I don't see using a docked vessel to desaturate working.
Honestly if we're kludging together a one or very few time use 'solution' to get the station through until they either fix their shit, or just to 2030, a modified Dragon/Cygnus with the appropriate connecter to be able to refuel the Russian side is probably the technicaly simplest solution, just the pesky politics of paying for, building and flying such a mission to deal with...
It handled the Nauka oopsie fine. These are small rockets movung a very big spacecraft.
 
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Starship can't even get to orbit and explodes most of the time these days

Its made 97% of orbital velocity six times already, and its last test released dummy Starlink satellites in space? You do realize its tests so far are targeting the indian ocean for a re-entry test, don't you?

And that it would be silly to burn the engines a few seconds longer to remain in orbit when that's not part of the test plan and possibly leaves the largest human made object in space in a decaying LEO without being 100% sure you can direct it's reentry to a safe location in the pacific?
 
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Dtiffster

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So next question, is there a port conveniently positioned that would let you thrust into it and provide the appropriate torque to the station?
Trying to put energy into the station from a docked vehicle via a docking ring in anything other than a pretty direct axial path sounds like galloping way out of spec for the loads/load vectors they're meant to handle. So if there wouldn't be a docking port in the correct position to provide the correct torque to the station, I don't see using a docked vessel to desaturate working.
Honestly if we're kludging together a one or very few time use 'solution' to get the station through until they either fix their shit, or just to 2030, a modified Dragon/Cygnus with the appropriate connecter to be able to refuel the Russian side is probably the technicaly simplest solution, just the pesky politics of paying for, building and flying such a mission to deal with...
I think you are greatly overestimating how much angular momentum it is that they need to dump. The 4 control moment gyros on the ISS only total up to 19,000 N-m-s. A single draco is 90 lb (400 N). With a 1.5 m moment arm it would produce a torque of 600 N-m, a couple of orders of magnitude under what IDSS can handle. At a 10% duty cycle it would take all of 5 min for one thruster to desaturate them. It would burn a grand total of 4 kg of propellant in the process. As I was trying to indicate, you could build this into a reboost, by introducing an asymmetry to the thruster firings. Instead of thrusting like normal through the CoM, they would intentionally fire offset from it and could induce whatever torque direction they like while reboosting.
 
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I'm just waiting for Roscosmos leadership to declare sabotage and that again it was Serena Auñón-Chancellor. Again their misogyny will probably lead them to claim she was dating someone at the facility and her "female emotions" caused her to lose it over a failed romantic relationship and sabotage the door.


https://meincmagazine.com/science/202...am-just-threw-a-nasa-astronaut-under-the-bus/

Standard operating procedure to cover up the fact their looting has degraded Roscosmos maintenance and operations to the point where major accidents are an annual event.
 
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