Dune driving with Mercedes-Benz as it tests off-road systems
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I'm impressed they are running on sand in street tires to gather data and test. But that poor paint in a rooster tail...
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Both my current GV60 and previous Tesla had a snow mode that allows a certain amount of spinning and slipping to prevent this. I would have thought that a Beemer would have a similar mode, but apparently the i3 doesn't. That seems like a major oversight!
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I think I’d rather have this than my Rubicon Recon with two locking Danas, sway bar disconnect.
Good call on irregular footsteps. You can never be to careful when walking in tall Dunes.
Next challenge Doc, are Mississippi mud pits.
Good call on irregular footsteps. You can never be to careful when walking in tall Dunes.
Next challenge Doc, are Mississippi mud pits.
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I suppose with the EV it really comes down to the software. I’d guess and this is a guess an AWD would have some sort of off-road/dirt road setting.
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I really dislike the star shaped lights design on these (as well as the rear ones on the E class).
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The trick is to eat the gummy worms off the top first. Sure, they make sense thematically, but they wreck the flavor and fun combination of textures you get from the Oreos and pudding.
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The street tires are actually better on sand than off road tires. For sand, you want to float on top, not dig in, so aggressive tread doesn't help. Airing down the tires is the biggest help.
Depending on the area, the concern would be the 8.1 ground clearance. That's would be the bare minimum in some areas (like the NC coast) and you'd have to pick your lines carefully.
Of course, these SUV's will likely never see those conditions. It is impressive that they handled that Dune OK.
Depending on the area, the concern would be the 8.1 ground clearance. That's would be the bare minimum in some areas (like the NC coast) and you'd have to pick your lines carefully.
Of course, these SUV's will likely never see those conditions. It is impressive that they handled that Dune OK.
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IME that's just RWD BMWs period... Decent winter tyres do make a big difference on snow, but there's still an element of "traction control says no".
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It's a preproduction car, it's going to get crushed eventually anyway because of accounting rules.
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I would think that they have, too, and that it was just hidden in the numerous incantantions, rituals and secret handshakes needed to get the traction control actually and fully disabled, and not just diminished.
Once had to push the neighbor's brand new X5 out of a puny four inch deep snow patch, ASC/TSC (or whatever its name was) off and everything, to discover later in the evening that pressing the button and getting the "Disabled" warning only means it will get in some "less agressive" mode.
On the i3 specifically, it sounds like full traction control disable is a menu procedure that includes pressing arcane buttons for 20 seconds to get in the service menu, and then find the mode, which - very logically - is called Roller Mode, because that's the logical thought that will come to anyone stranded, under stress, and in a rush: To look for "Roller Mode".
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More than 15 years ago I spent a day at the BMW Performance Center in South Carolina. In addition to the usual track, autocross and skid pad exercises, we also did some off-roading in the X5. That’s something I’d never done before. Or since, for that matter, although I actively enjoy driving on snow. They basically told us to use minimal throttle, and let the car’s electronics manage the torque apportioned to each wheel. Sure enough, you could feel one tire or another lose grip, then another take over, as the vehicle climbed over rocks or up slippery trails.
And that was using the relatively primitive electronics of the era. I can only imagine how it would be today, especially with the extremely fine-grained control afforded by electric drive motors.
And that was using the relatively primitive electronics of the era. I can only imagine how it would be today, especially with the extremely fine-grained control afforded by electric drive motors.
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It was exactly 15 years ago when the X5 I mentioned above got desperately stuck in what looked like a nothing amount of snow. There was, to be honest, an ice patch underneath. On that day, I saw two identical, very recent X5s, get completely stuck on nothing. I only assisted on one.
All these electronics account to nothing when one of the wheels is spinning, and electronics are still on. And these electronics (and the mechanics around them, by the way), were very advanced - even to this day. BMW's X-Drive is a very good system otherwise.
What I realized on that day was that both X5s were recent leases, East Coast, of a similar trim, and that BMW simply sold them with the same type of tires which was a type very much unsuited for frozen conditions. Add the fact that disabling the traction control did not fully disable it - it still will stop everything after one quarter turn or so - and the thing was dead as a dodo.
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I gotta admit that the lede photo is kind of a "WTF?" moment after browsing to the page. You don't often see a Mercedes drifting on sand like that.
Like, never in my life.
I've been to those dunes in the past, and looked at them. Didn't try to climb them, though. They are, indeed huge. And I know my limits.
And much like the dunes, I'd look at the car. I do like that dash. I mean, if you're going to distract the fuck out of the driver, may as well do it in bold style and with clear malice of forethought. I'd HATE to have the sun coming in over my shoulders, though. Unless that's angled down a lot more than it appears to be, it could certainly create a whole new definition to the meaning of sunspots.
But, with my income, I know my limits there, too, so like climbing tall hills, it's a bit of a pipe dream.
I notice pricing isn't mentioned, but in looking up current (25MY) and impending (26MY) models available, they run between $50K-$55K depending on features, but that's not with the "EQ Technology" that I can tell. How much that change will impact pricing obviously remains to be seen. Assuming not a huge deviation from that (since it's the class it is), that's actually less than I'd expect.
And in looking all this up TIL they make these in the US (Alabama), which probably explains the lower than expected price on the current models. I thought they still came from Germany and would have tariff import fees tacked on.
Interesting wake-up call for sure. Thanks for the article.
Like, never in my life.
I've been to those dunes in the past, and looked at them. Didn't try to climb them, though. They are, indeed huge. And I know my limits.
And much like the dunes, I'd look at the car. I do like that dash. I mean, if you're going to distract the fuck out of the driver, may as well do it in bold style and with clear malice of forethought. I'd HATE to have the sun coming in over my shoulders, though. Unless that's angled down a lot more than it appears to be, it could certainly create a whole new definition to the meaning of sunspots.
But, with my income, I know my limits there, too, so like climbing tall hills, it's a bit of a pipe dream.
I notice pricing isn't mentioned, but in looking up current (25MY) and impending (26MY) models available, they run between $50K-$55K depending on features, but that's not with the "EQ Technology" that I can tell. How much that change will impact pricing obviously remains to be seen. Assuming not a huge deviation from that (since it's the class it is), that's actually less than I'd expect.
And in looking all this up TIL they make these in the US (Alabama), which probably explains the lower than expected price on the current models. I thought they still came from Germany and would have tariff import fees tacked on.
Interesting wake-up call for sure. Thanks for the article.
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So, the question - is there a failover/manual/youname it mode that would simply lock a Front<>Rear ratio and call it a day ?
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?Jonathan Gitlin said:
Oh, I see. If you'd marched along, it could have triggered an avalanche. Wait, no, that's not for sand. A mudslide? No. A...bad sand-related incident?
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I had exactly the same problem with all of my Prius mild hybrids, upgrading to a 2014 did not help in the slightest. (Our GM Volt PHEV has always handled beautifully.) It probably depends on whether the engineers and executives hate the customers. All jokes about Toyota and the Prius’s generally terrible handling aside, it’s all in the programming and the attention to detail.
So far the Mach-E has been great in snow. EV’s can have instant torque in whatever wheel needs it, especially the ones with a motor on each wheel no waiting for the gasoline motor and a long chain of mechanical stuff to finally get moving. They generally have the battery in a skateboard configuration on the bottom and that evenly distributed, low weight holds the wheels down.
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Look at when the i3 was introduced, it's old technology. It's done very well in terms of production run, but in terms of driver assist it isn't brilliant. Which is why I didn't buy one. I believe that the electrics, battery etc. were transferred to the Mini production line, which is definitely a sub-brand.
The other thing is that the i3 had seriously weird tyres which came in few varieties. 155/70R19? 175/55R20?
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Well, the grill sure went full sandworm*, so bless the maker and his spice, I guess
*never go full sandworm
*never go full sandworm
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When we had a Prius, I had one of those little NATO mattocks and a quantity of ground control mesh in the boot in winter. The one time I needed it, it worked. I put 4 season tyres on the next Toyota and never had a problem.
But back in the 1980s I once drove a Land Rover onto a very muddy field to rescue someone who had got stuck. Despite very knobbly tyres, the LR proceeded to sit there with all four wheels spinning and we had to go and find some gravel to get it started. I still don't understand the wonders of friction.
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A few years back I owned a Prius that had the same problem. On one particularly snowy day, I found out that the traction control was far less aggressive in reverse, or maybe off entirely. I may have driven an unadvisable amount of time backwards in a blizzard that day.
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"In addition to testing on the sand in the Dumont Dunes, Mercedes has also been working on the GLC's handling on snow in the Arctic Circle. The engineers need less sunscreen on that assignment."
Not sure this is really accurate, though I guess it would depend on when you went. As far as I am aware, the reflections of the suns rays off the snow and ice would make the need for sunscreen and glacier glasses more important in the artic.
Not sure this is really accurate, though I guess it would depend on when you went. As far as I am aware, the reflections of the suns rays off the snow and ice would make the need for sunscreen and glacier glasses more important in the artic.
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Unfortunately, this is common on many AWD vehicles. There are many YouTube videos of Subaru's stuck in the sand refusing to spin wheels.
So, research research. Some AWD will operate when turning off traction control (or ESP, StabiliTrac...etc) Others keep certain features enabled all the time (I have one vehicle that limits wheel spin and speed to 25mph... no matter what .. making climbing snow covered hills impossible). The VW R20 (AWD GTI) came in two model years --- one allowing donuts, the other wouldn't allow it. The axles were weak
Even my 4x4 GMC truck has issues like this - my driveway is uphill and in deep snow the nanny-system traction control (StabiliTrac) will remove power from the engine (even though the truck is an "off-road" Z71 with locking rear diff). Thankfully, disabling traction-control allows the V8 to spin all 4 tires again.
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Brilliant! I was aware of "Roller Mode" but had not given it any thought on the two occasions. It is quite likely that "Roller Mode" disables the linkage between the front and rear wheels.
To reach the hidden settings/diagnostics:
1. Press and Hold Trip Rest Button for a few second
2. Press the trip button until you reach option 4 “Lock”
3. Press and Hold until you see “Number”
4. You will need to calculate your number. Add up the last five digits
of your VIN, this is your Number. Then cycle through the numbers until
you reach your number. Then press and hold.
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As far as I can tell, various rear-drive electric VW's had no ability to manage traction control. They surfaced some settings on the AWD version though. (Some kind of upsell that nobody knew about?)
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Yes, depending on both REX/non-REX, and wheel size:
2015 REX: Front: R19 155/70 84Q, Rear: R19 175/60 86Q
2020 BEV: Front: R20 155/60 80Q, Rear: R20 175/55 89Q
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Nora Lenderbee
Ars Tribunus Militum
Not a fan of Frank Herbert's Dune novels?
"Sandworms are attracted to rhythmic vibrations in the sand, which they mistake for prey (smaller sandworms).To escape the notice of the sandworms, a traveller in the desert must learn to "walk without rhythm" in a manner that simulates the natural sounds of the desert."
/pedant mode off
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as I had the rear tires replaced this morning)
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Don't you have the old ones still ?
Funny though. I got my Santa Fe's ones replaced yesterday. Lasted me 95k miles with still some meat on them, but I didn't want to keep them all the way to the magic number, what with winter coming and whatnot.
PS: The i3's tires would be very, very efficient in snow and slush, with them being narrow and all.
Funny though. I got my Santa Fe's ones replaced yesterday. Lasted me 95k miles with still some meat on them, but I didn't want to keep them all the way to the magic number, what with winter coming and whatnot.
PS: The i3's tires would be very, very efficient in snow and slush, with them being narrow and all.
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Welp thanks, I cannot unsee that logo now... those lights still look spectacular though. Everything does in these shots, really gorgeous photos all around on the article.Why do the DRLs look like Mitsubishi’s logo?
Our intrepid author must've noticed wormsign in the distance, can't be too cautious with Shai Hulud.
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This seems like a failure point on offroading on anything but sand. Climbing rocks and slamming into the battery stored between the axles just does not seem like a fun day of offroading ending very well. At a minimum the battery leaks, at most it explodes with a well placed impact.
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I suppose the budget office stops just short of copping for local accomodations during the week after spending a butt crack load of cash hauling all that shit out there and back every day ... oh wait - somehow a daily 4 hour round trip is cheaper.
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