European Union orders X to hand over algorithm documents

EC has also requested access to information on how X moderates and amplifies content.

See full article...

 

[ewelch]

Up against the wall Ketamine addict.

 

[Zeppos]

President Elon doesn't respect anyone or anything, especially laws. Good luck, Chief Virkkunen.

So many options... no luck needed. Patience and persistence is all you need. You know, like parenting a kid going through a rough puberty period.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Taking away a "I'm special" badge is not restricting speech.

Except on Musk's hate platform, it kind of is.

 

[Bilateralrope]

President Elon doesn't respect anyone or anything, especially laws. Good luck, Chief Virkkunen.

That would simplify the case by allowing a few adverse inferences* instead of a fight over what the evidence shows.


Watching Musk attempt to backpedal after that happens will be entertaining. Especially if the documentation doesn't exist.

*I'm not sure if EU courts use a different term.

 

[sir1963nz]

Perhaps, following the US lead on this (TikTok), the EU can demand the divestment of twitter and other US social media companies.
It's a well known fact that US companies harvest personal information, and that the US government spies on it allies.

 

[Fatesrider]

This should be entertaining. I have to wonder if Twitter even has documentation of how their algorithm works. For all we know, they may be simply tweaking the code based on whatever verbal dictates Musk emitted last. What's the EU going to do when Twitter dumps 50 pages of hacked code on them?

Who am I kidding? They'll spout off about trade secrets and do their best to avoid producing anything.

Oh, they'll do one thing with absolute certainty.

 

[Bilateralrope]

Perhaps, following the US lead on this (TikTok), the EU can demand the divestment of twitter and other US social media companies.
It's a well known fact that US companies harvest personal information, and that the US government spies on it allies.

The EU prefers to fine a percentage of daily revenue of all related companies until the illegal thing stops happening.

Related companies might include SpaceX:
https://meincmagazine.com/tech-policy...-by-including-revenue-from-musks-other-firms/

Musk gets to decide between:
- X/Twitter operating in compliance with the law. If he can keep his ego from getting in the way.
- Selling X/Twitter to someone else. If anyone else wants it.
- Pull X/Twitter out of the EU. Which requires blocking anyone who tries to use a VPN.
- X/Twitter goes bankrupt and shuts down.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

I mean, I don't like the guy, but it is sort of his platform, he can boost his own tweets however he wants.

Doesn’t stop it being desperately sad and pathetic, though.

 

[forkspoon]

“The guy can be crazy but it is unfair if he’s amplifying who must listen to him.”

That’s exactly why he bought twitter. Does anyone who pays attention think he bought it so he could unfetter the speech of people he disagrees with? That would be like puppy dog levels of cute, if so.

 

[ducatisymphony]

I mean, I don't like the guy, but it is sort of his platform, he can boost his own tweets however he wants. It's essentially a private forum made public. This is like trying to regulate phpBB forums that the owners and moderators can't boost or sticky their own threads.

Can he though? Does EU law say so? I genuinely don't know the answer but if artificially boosting certain tweets violates their laws then I guess he can't if he wants to operate there.

The EU won't because they don't have their own replacement apps since they've regulated tech companies off of the continent. Plus you don't ban the cash cow you can fine to oblivion.

This was the giveaway for me, particularly the cash cow portion. They haven't regulated tech companies off the continent, any tech company operating in the EU is still having to follow their regulations. I don't think the fines paid to the EU by tech companies adds up to much in the grand scheme of their overall budget.

 

[raxx7]

I mean, I don't like the guy, but it is sort of his platform, he can boost his own tweets however he wants. It's essentially a private forum made public. This is like trying to regulate phpBB forums that the owners and moderators can't boost or sticky their own threads.

They're not the same thing.

I run a phpBB forum. It's my personal property and I am fully liable for any debts it may incur.

The X service however is owned by a corporation whose legal status provides some protection to it's owners. Fundamentally if X goes bankrupt it's debts won't become Musk's personal debts as long as Musk follows the proper rules.

In my personal opinion corporations should not have the same free speech rights as people.

 

[James_G]

$5 says Musk thinks he's clever, tries to stand up to this by omitting information or just not coughing it up, and gets Xitter banned in the EU.

 

[DJ Farkus]

Trump taking over and promising change is likely a straw for a lot of people to grasp at. He will probably fail as well and then where will people turn? Far left instead? Will they lash out? I’ve no idea.

He'll just declare that he did not fail, but succeeded spectacularly, and the plebes will all agree. Even if their grocery bill costs more than their mortgage.

Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

 

[TEA-Time]

Musk's whims are NOT an algorithm.

 

[Uragan]

The AfD probably will get a lot of votes in the next German election, with or without X/Musk.

If that's the case, then Musk amplifying the AfD is just going to increase that number.

I don’t expect most people voting for them are actually nazis.

Sure... a lot of Germans weren't actually Nazis when the Nazis were voted into power, but they're still complicit in the rise of the Nazi party. Same with people who vote for the AfD. They're still complicit since they support the AfD and were willing to put them into power.

Like many others have noted, a lot of their support likely comes from the disappointment with the existing political parties to deliver prosperity, or at least jobs paying a decent wage.

I didn't know governments can force corporations to pay more than the minimum wage, unless you're advocating for the wholesale nationalization of entire industries, which is something that AfD would most likely be against doing...

These new / far right (or far left, as Mélenchon’s party in France) often haven’t yet had a go at ruling and failing.

Uh... so you're saying we should give the AfD a chance because they haven't had a chance? If we can avoid a lapse (or relapse) into fascism, we should.

Same with Trump, I guess. Many will see both US parties as largely the same and largely corrupt.

So... why is Trump aligned with the Republican Party? Why are the Republican Party members in lockstep with Trump? Why did people vote Republican en masse for Trump?

Trump taking over and promising change is likely a straw for a lot of people to grasp at.

And ironically, he's the most corrupt president the US has ever had and is promising to be even more corrupt in his second term.

He will probably fail as well and then where will people turn?

Considering the handrails have been all but removed and Trump is wanting to install his cronies in positions that would normally hold him accountable... I don't think he'll "fail", sadly.

Far left instead? Will they lash out? I’ve no idea.

The "far left" is such a non-entity in the US.

 

[Carewolf]

I mean, I don't like the guy, but it is sort of his platform, he can boost his own tweets however he wants. It's essentially a private forum made public. This is like trying to regulate phpBB forums that the owners and moderators can't boost or sticky their own threads.


The EU won't because they don't have their own replacement apps since they've regulated tech companies off of the continent. Plus you don't ban the cash cow you can fine to oblivion.

Making a replacement is easy.. Especially once the entrenced monopolies are gone.

 

[Carewolf]

The AfD probably will get a lot of votes in the next German election, with or without X/Musk. I don’t expect most people voting for them are actually nazis. Like many others have noted, a lot of their support likely comes from the disappointment with the existing political parties to deliver prosperity, or at least jobs paying a decent wage. These new / far right (or far left, as Mélenchon’s party in France) often haven’t yet had a go at ruling and failing.

Same with Trump, I guess. Many will see both US parties as largely the same and largely corrupt. Trump taking over and promising change is likely a straw for a lot of people to grasp at. He will probably fail as well and then where will people turn? Far left instead? Will they lash out? I’ve no idea.

Doesn't look like Musk's comments has made any difference, they are still even at the highest pollings an irrelevant 20% of the voters.

 

[Darkly]

Haha he’s never going to do this. It would be like Microsoft handing over the source code for Windows or Office.

I see him pulling out of Europe. He didn’t mind taking the company from $44 billion valuation to $9.24 billion and that’s a minuscule amount of $ to him.

And what if he blocks EU from using Starlink and SpaceX launches and bricks every Tesla?

Or maybe Donnie T will hit EU with sanctions to retaliate

Don't threaten us with a good time.

 

[Bilateralrope]

Doesn't look like Musk's comments has made any difference, they are still even at the highest pollings an irrelevant 20% of the voters.

20% is not irrelevant. Have a read about which system Germany uses:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_system_of_Germany


That second vote for the party list means that a party with 20% of the vote is going to get approximately 20% of the seats. Not enough to rule on their own, but enough to make demands in any coalition government.

 

[YetAnotherAnonymousAppellation]

Europe should be careful about aggravating the Muskrat lest they enrage him. That might lead to him prodding/ordering the Orange Menace to invading them.
/s?

 

[Carewolf]

20% is not irrelevant. Have a read about which system Germany uses:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_system_of_Germany


That second vote for the party list means that a party with 20% of the vote is going to get approximately 20% of the seats. Not enough to rule on their own, but enough to make demands in any coalition government.

Not if nobody wants to work with you. You need alliances to do Anything with less than 50% and afd has none and burned all bridges ti get any when they suggested expelling German citizens with the wrong skin color

 

[AdrianS]

looks a little long in the tooth.

youtube does this. facebook has done this forever. The trump interview on rogan had something like 38 million views in 3 days and you couldn't even find it in the youtube search results. it had been shadow-banned. after public pressure they finally apologized and said sorry here it is.

the only reason they are picking on X is because they don't like his personal opinions; which really reinforces the issue he has with the EU and UK. eg. people getting jailed for their social media posts that go against the government approved narrative. The UK/EU slip further and further each year towards a system that bans any and all free expression that they happen to disagree with.

I understand that most of the ARS commenters lean far left (that used to be me for the last 27 years). Despite how much someone hates trump, or hates musk, just keep an open mind about this one thing: you are helping to support a machine that tries to crush any expression that lies outside of a specific narrative that is driven by the government and supported by almost all media. That works for you now because you happen to agree with it ( I did for a very long time). however, one day, that machine will be pushing a narrative that you do not agree with at all. and when that day comes, and statistically speaking it will, there will be no recourse to do anything about it. it will be too late.

Posting "Most of Ars commenters lean far left" shows how ignorant you are.

Most Ars commenters may be to the left of you politically, but calling them "far left" is fucking delusional.

 

[AdrianS]

Haha he’s never going to do this. It would be like Microsoft handing over the source code for Windows or Office.

I see him pulling out of Europe. He didn’t mind taking the company from $44 billion valuation to $9.24 billion and that’s a minuscule amount of $ to him.

And what if he blocks EU from using Starlink and SpaceX launches and bricks every Tesla?

Or maybe Donnie T will hit EU with sanctions to retaliate

You're sounding just like Musk and Trump - "punish" the EU for enforcing their laws, no matter what the damage, purely for spite.

Bricking every Telsa in Europe would mean the death of Tesla, and a class action for an astronomical amount of money.

Banning Starlink opens the door for one of the other satellite constellations.

 

[YetAnotherAnonymousAppellation]

...
The "far left" is such a non-entity in the US.

So true. most Americans don't realize that the Dems are actually centre-right when compared to the rest of the world.

 

[effgee]

… The EU won't because they don't have their own replacement apps since they've regulated tech companies off of the continent. Plus you don't ban the cash cow you can fine to oblivion.

Whodathunk that going through life with one’s blinker-aperture set to 0.0001° could lead to one missing even the most basic of facts?

Firstly…

”… Mastodon announced Monday that it's shifting its structure over the next six months to become wholly owned by a European nonprofit organization …” (link)

And secondly, the EU budget for 2025 is just under €200bn, whereas the EU’s maximum fine for any corporate entity is 10% of its yearly revenue - in the case of Twitter, that’d be 10% of ~$5bn (in ‘21), resulting in a max fine of $500m. That’s more of a cash housefly than a cash cow.

But hey, don’t let something as banal as facts intrude in whatever flavor of alternate universe gets you out of bed in the morning.

 

[AdrianS]

"Musk, we'll need you to physically print out your last 30 to 60 days of written code and bring this to our office for a performance review."

Replace "written code" with "social media posts" and you're on to something.

 

[TimeWinder]

This is a war to save American democratic institutions and values.

That war was lost when the GOP stole their first Supreme Court nomination, and cemented in the 2016 election. In four days, the facists are going to control every house and branch of government, have literally been given immunity to the law, and have promised to remove the need for elections altogether.

But at least we don't have a woman President!

 

[AdrianS]

Apparently you don’t understand why Musk and the other tech CEOs donated to and supported Trump. Their ask is for Trump to defend them from the EU. Starting in a few weeks, any country that fines or attacks an American company is going to get hit with 300% tariffs and maybe even sanctions. The U.S. support of the UN and NATO will go bye bye if Trump feels American companies and workers are being threatened.

You're still projecting. The EU fining lawbreakers isn't "attacking US companies".

And if Trump does as you claim, that just hastens the US's decline as a global power.

 

[LBJsPNS]

people are just stupid

Case in point.

 

[dragoninnaMINI]

"When they go low, we go high," never works.

When some group is constantly kicking you in the balls and violating every rule and law flagrantly and with no repercussions, you take out a chainsaw and cut their fuckin' foot off.

No no no....you cut their fuckin' head off.

 

[AJ_Grey]

Tantrum incoming.

 

[dzid]

Apparently you don’t understand why Musk and the other tech CEOs donated to and supported Trump. Their ask is for Trump to defend them from the EU. Starting in a few weeks, any country that fines or attacks an American company is going to get hit with 300% tariffs and maybe even sanctions. The U.S. support of the UN and NATO will go bye bye if Trump feels American companies and workers are being threatened.

I think you vastly underestimate the value of NATO to the U.S. Ditching it would certainly leave American companies and workers and perhaps even oligarchs at risk from the likes of China. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Bilateralrope]

I think you vastly underestimate underestimate the value of NATO to the U.S. Ditching it would certainly leave American companies and workers and perhaps even oligarchs at risk from the likes of China. Be careful what you wish for.

Do the oligarchs understand that ?

 

[itfa]

And they think they'll actually hand over the real stuff that shows they're throwing right wing propaganda in everybody's faces?

 

[Madestjohn]

That war was lost when the GOP stole their first Supreme Court nomination, and cemented in the 2016 election. In four days, the facists are going to control every house and branch of government, have literally been given immunity to the law, and have promised to remove the need for elections altogether.

But at least we don't have a woman President!

hmmm. I don’t know about that being the ‘first’

even limiting ourselves to just the modern era..

there’s a strong argument that GOP stole the court starting back in 1969 when Warren Burger replaced Abe Fortas (President Johnson’s nominee for chief judge) who withdrew himself from consideration

- ironically this was due to scandal over being seen as too friendly with Johnson, some payments he’d earlier received from shadowy corporate interests for a seminar and finally a secret financial arrangement with a wealthy businessman later convicted of stock fraud - none of which would even raise an eyebrow with current court

that, followed by three subsequent Nixon appointees, has pretty much locked the court into GOP/ right wing/ wealthy control since the early seventies
- perhaps not coincidentally about when The Heritage Foundation was founded

 

[Bilateralrope]

And they think they'll actually hand over the real stuff that shows they're throwing right wing propaganda in everybody's faces?

Musk can probably make things worse for himself if he tries that.

All it takes is the EU to notice that the documents don't match what Twitter is doing, then go digging for proof. Questioning whoever has their name on the documents under oath, questioning the people who should be following the docs, checking the metadata, etc.

 

[BananaBonanza]

Not if nobody wants to work with you. You need alliances to do Anything with less than 50% and afd has none and burned all bridges

No, the immediate problem is not them getting power.

The first problem is that the higher their percentage, the fewer coalition options there are for the other parties. It requires broader coalitions and those are difficult to negotiate and leave voters less satisfied. The first-ever three party coalition in Germany didn’t even last its first term.

The second problem is that their results cause a shift of the conversation. Other parties adopt their topics and sometimes get closer to their position, to take those votes back. And this has already shifted the public conversation towards topics they favor.