Microsoft blocks a new batch of system drivers, but the loophole empowering them remains.
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Read the article.Cheaters, downloading questionable software, get compromised, how quaint. I have no sympathy.
That's a gross misread of the article and the issue. The tools are used by cheaters, yes, but they have been taken by APT groups and integrated into their stuff to allow them to sign drivers after they make their initial exploit.Cheaters, downloading questionable software, get compromised, how quaint. I have no sympathy.
This is one time I think Microsoft should take a page out of Apple's book and be a little more strict on their security in a way to force the vendor to clean up their own messes and do things right. Is it really Microsoft breaking it if vendor's processes/security was broken from the get-go?
It would still be reasonable to make this a system policy for opt-in, or potentially opt-out, so that unless you need this vulnerability left open, you have the option to close it (as already mentioned in another comment).It's a cute thought, but the huge reach of MS OSes and gajillions of tiny vendors mean there's thousands of companies out there relying on drivers for one-of-a-kind hardware from vendors that likely don't even exist anymore. I know it's hard for people on the pure software side of things to grok, but if you're a small manufacturing concern, maybe a dozen or so people, running some specialized CNC hardware, your vendor going up in smoke is no reason to shut down operations or spend millions replacing perfectly functional hardware just because Microsoft decided to blacklist the drivers. Even mid-sized concerns will find themselves in this sort of situation on the regular.
The one OS provider that by-and-large lets people just get on with their work pulling the rug out from under countless companies in the name of plugging a security hole that already requires administrative access would justifiably be met with countless lawsuits.
It really seems odd that this isn't the default approach. It'd be incredibly easy to identify situations where a cert is exempt from the signing check and block the executable unless the user goes through some serious admin hoops with some big "Are you SURE?" sorts of messages.It would still be reasonable to make this a system policy for opt-in, or potentially opt-out, so that unless you need this vulnerability left open, you have the option to close it (as already mentioned in another comment).
The problem is, if I understand the problem correctly, is that exploiting this vulnerability already requires administrator credentials, so any opt-in mechanism would be worthless as the process running as the admin user could simply modify the policy from opt-out to opt-in. In fact I'm not sure there's an effective mitigation as any updated DLLs could likely just be rolled back to vulnerable versions, or the attacker could redirect the function calls to a vulnerable DLL version in another location. Basically if you have administrator permissions you already effectively have SYSTEM permissions as you can undo any security mechanism that's put in place.It would still be reasonable to make this a system policy for opt-in, or potentially opt-out, so that unless you need this vulnerability left open, you have the option to close it (as already mentioned in another comment).
That is not remotely what is happening here, nor is that what the article said.Cheaters, downloading questionable software, get compromised, how quaint. I have no sympathy.
Read my post again. I said nothing about the exploit or patching. My comment was regarding the cheaters who got compromised. You failed to comprehend. Your thinking is bad, and you should feel bad.
What cheaters?Read my post again. I said nothing about the exploit or patching. My comment was regarding the cheaters who got compromised. You failed to comprehend. Your thinking is bad, and you should feel bad.
The blacklists themselves are deliberately designed to be difficult to roll back, at least without reverting a snapshot of the OS. That also means that you can't just try it and back it out if there's a problem.The problem is, if I understand the problem correctly, is that exploiting this vulnerability already requires administrator credentials, so any opt-in mechanism would be worthless as the process running as the admin user could simply modify the policy from opt-out to opt-in. In fact I'm not sure there's an effective mitigation as any updated DLLs could likely just be rolled back to vulnerable versions, or the attacker could redirect the function calls to a vulnerable DLL version in another location. Basically if you have administrator permissions you already effectively have SYSTEM permissions as you can undo any security mechanism that's put in place.
“The software comes in the form of two software tools that are available on GitHub. Cheaters use them to digitally sign malicious system drivers so they can modify video games in ways that give the player an unfair advantage.”
I did not misunderstand the article. I was commenting on the cheaters who got compromised. I did not comment on the compromise. Put on your big boy panties.
I really wish being this stupid was painful. I mean, we all know it's a troll at this point, but holy shit this is just lazy.“The software comes in the form of two software tools that are available on GitHub. Cheaters use them to digitally sign malicious system drivers so they can modify video games in ways that give the player an unfair advantage.”
I did not misunderstand the article. I was commenting on the cheaters who got compromised. I did not comment on the compromise. Put on your big boy panties.
In the early 90s we would complain that they were wasting valuable network bytes. What's the contemporary version of that?I really wish being this stupid was painful. I mean, we all know it's a troll at this point, but holy shit this is just lazy.
And then hacking groups have been using these tools to sign malware instead of game cheating tools. Which you'd know if you'd RTFA.“The software comes in the form of two software tools that are available on GitHub. Cheaters use them to digitally sign malicious system drivers so they can modify video games in ways that give the player an unfair advantage.”
There have been times that I've posted before finishing the article. Mostly on longer articles where I know I'll forget what I wanted to say by the time I finish. In those cases, I do search the article and comments to see if my thought was addressed or made by somebody else. It's not perfect, but I think I've only looked stupid once*, because a poster made the same comment, but didn't quote the article text.And then hacking groups have been using these tools to sign malware instead of game cheating tools. Which you'd know if you'd RTFA.
I wonder if Ars' web team can implement something in Javascript that disables your ability to comment on an article until you've scrolled the page to the bottom in a time that's consistent with actually reading the article? That way people can't post stuff by the time they've got as far as the second paragraph.
Of course it wouldn't stop people with terrible reading comprehension skills, but it'd be something.
Brain cells.In the early 90s we would complain that they were wasting valuable network bytes. What's the contemporary version of that?
Or a process in which even if it uses an old certificate, it still has to be approved by the user explicitly, requiring a restart to enable? And then only allowing third-party kernel drivers if the user has explicitly chosen to run in a “Reduced Security” mode.Why not opt-in instead of no opt for those users that need legacy expired drivers to work?
That's fair enough, though I think it's only fair to point out that I was being rather factitious. It was more an expression of frustration at somebody who clearly hasn't read (or understood) more than 2 paragraphs of the article whilst pontificating and passing judgement on a subject they're not qualified to comment on than a serious feature request.There have been times that I've posted before finishing the article. Mostly on longer articles where I know I'll forget what I wanted to say by the time I finish. In those cases, I do search the article and comments to see if my thought was addressed or made by somebody else. It's not perfect, but I think I've only looked stupid once*, because a poster made the same comment, but didn't quote the article text.
I think the timer would annoy me. I'm generally considered a fast reader. I don't speed read, but pretty much the only people that read faster than I do are speed readers. If they implemented a timer, I'm sure I'd be pulling up the console within a week.
* For this reason; I look stupid plenty often for other reasons.
A waste of planetary resourcesIn the early 90s we would complain that they were wasting valuable network bytes. What's the contemporary version of that?
Just wondering how that would help in any way, seeing that this exploit requires Administrative privileges, meaning that the attackers can do whatever they want on the system, like opt-in for this policy?Why not opt-in instead of no opt for those users that need legacy expired drivers to work?
This would probably help a lot more than opt-in/opt-out as the user will have a heads up that something is wrong when they see the warning message that they run in "Reduced Security" mode.Or a process in which even if it uses an old certificate, it still has to be approved by the user explicitly, requiring a restart to enable? And then only allowing third-party kernel drivers if the user has explicitly chosen to run in a “Reduced Security” mode.
Apple is not a good comparison. It as well as Microsoft, continue the mantra to Push it out the door, patch it later. Its not a good policy, and pretty much proves that nothing is secure in software or hardware, look at Intel, and even an M1 flaw in Apple silicon. Can't imagine there aren't more, but Apple Legal does their best.This is one time I think Microsoft should take a page out of Apple's book and be a little more strict on their security in a way to force the vendor to clean up their own messes and do things right. Is it really Microsoft breaking it if vendor's processes/security was broken from the get-go?
OMFDodo READ THE DAMN ARTICLE DUMBASSRead my post again. I said nothing about the exploit or patching. My comment was regarding the cheaters who got compromised. You failed to comprehend. Your thinking is bad, and you should feel bad.
Fuqing Yuntan Network…
???
We sure this is not a parody name?
It's pronounced foo-ching, if that helps.Fuqing Yuntan Network…
???
We sure this is not a parody name?
Cheating tools are merely a byproduct of the ability to access the lowest rings of the kernel. There exists a need for developers and applications to be able to reach into the kernel, with the appropriate security levels, to access certain things. SMBIOS, DMI tables, reading any internal ports and talking to the hardware. It's tricky and there are considerations to be made.Honestly really hope we get greater protections against bogus drivers like this sooner rather than later.
Not only to prevent this kind of vulnerability, but to take away the justification for kernel level anticheat by removing kernel level cheats (or at least, as others say, make it an opt in for those that need it, and allow software to query the status of that toggle.