Elon Musk, Twitter’s next owner, provides his definition of “free speech”

Amid Twitter buyout, Musk says free speech is simply "that which matches the law."

Read the whole story

 

[orwelldesign]

Well, then,... I admire you even more than before knowing this. Good on you for doing this. Stop the bullying and aggression as soon as it starts.

We have at least four things in common: 6' 4" height, liberal, weapon ownership, and the a fearlessness (or at least willingness) for needed confrontational defense.

I really appreciate it that he now knows that "democrat" is not synonymous with "coward" or "snowflake."

Keep up the good fight.

You guys have two inches on me. Otherwise, this Club is somewhat bigger than I'd have thought it to be.

I've even got the felony battery charges to prove it.

(In one of the two cases, I was *absolutely* guilty as charged, and did my bit; in the other, the only time I've ever actually lawyered up, I was both not guilty and innocent. *taps head* I've also been 'not guilty' a few times when the government couldn't or didn't do their job.)

It's been awhile since I've had cuffs on, though, and I vastly prefer being a law abiding citizen to who I was then.

 

[orwelldesign]

"The Wokes"

The stupid, it burnses.

If he said "The Awakened" people might think he was talking about Mage: The Ascension.

But, man, using woke as a pejorative sure makes it easy to get my "click the ignore button" muscles their reps.

 

[Deleted member 807857]

Well, then,... I admire you even more than before knowing this. Good on you for doing this. Stop the bullying and aggression as soon as it starts.

We have at least four things in common: 6' 4" height, liberal, weapon ownership, and the a fearlessness (or at least willingness) for needed confrontational defense.

I really appreciate it that he now knows that "democrat" is not synonymous with "coward" or "snowflake."

Keep up the good fight.

You guys have two inches on me. Otherwise, this Club is somewhat bigger than I'd have thought it to be.

I've even got the felony battery charges to prove it.

(In one of the two cases, I was *absolutely* guilty as charged, and did my bit; in the other, the only time I've ever actually lawyered up, I was both not guilty and innocent. *taps head* I've also been 'not guilty' a few times when the government couldn't or didn't do their job.)

It's been awhile since I've had cuffs on, though, and I vastly prefer being a law abiding citizen to who I was then.

I'm 6' 3", so count me in that club also.

 

[Uragan]

You missed the point completely. Retrospectively I can see how it would be an easy mistake to make, but if you look a bit closer I say how it would raise my opinion of Trump Jr if he were dating a trans woman. We can talk about how enlightened we are, and how things shouldn't matter, but when faced with a situation where someone you're dating tells you they are trans... many of us would probably fail that challenge. Which just means we still have work to do before our actions are fully in line with our words. We are currently living in a transitional age. A few generations from now people probably won't even think twice about it, but basically all of us alive now straddle the period between complete rejection of the idea and complete acceptance. We were socialized with the idea that these things are wrong, and have since taken the conscious choice to reject that idea, but it's not that simple to fully internalize a new idea. It will be a constant effort probably for the rest of our lives.

You can change your behavior immediately if you choose. It doesn't take generations.

Don't mock people (even bad people) for their looks.

Donald Trump Jr. isn't going to read your comment at Ars. Nor is his fiance.

You know who might read your comment? A trans woman who is in the middle of transitioning.

Elon Musk won't read any of the comments here on Ars either, what's your point?

And you're still missing the point. Truly internalizing a new thought pattern and associated behavior takes a very long time. The further it is from what you were socialized in, the longer and more effort it takes. This is well documented in social psychology research.

Let me put it this way. I deal with depression. A common problem for depressed people is rumination. We will get stuck in infinite loops replaying various incidents over and over in our mind and beating ourselves up for not handling a situation better. Therapists will tell you that you need to make an effort to catch yourself when you start doing this and then to consciously reject those ideas. However, as anyone who has ever tried to do it will tell you, it's a whole lot easier said than done. It can take years of constant effort to even feel like you're making any progress at all, and decades to get to a point where you start doing it automatically. The same basic principle applies to any other thought pattern.

If you are dating someone, it's starting to get serious, and they then tell you that they are trans (pre or post-op, doesn't matter) can you honestly say that you would be able to tell them that it doesn't matter at all to you, and that you could do that reflexively, in the moment and actually mean it? Never once having even a scintilla of doubt or regret. I think most of us would probably have to answer no if we were being honest. Maybe given a little time to process the situation we would decide our feelings for the person transcend gender, and good for those people, but there would be that moment of hesitation. For a lot of people, it would be the end of the relationship. Many will rationalize it as the person not being honest with them, which is just a bullshit cop-out. None of this is even remotely fair to trans people, and I hope they will live to see the day when no one will give two shits about this sort of thing, but that day isn't today and likely won't be tomorrow. If enough people keep working at it, the day will arrive eventually, however.

If I'm dating someone and it's getting serious, then they told me they were trans - no, it wouldn't even cross my mind to reject someone I care about *that* much over something as silly as they used to be a guy. In fact, I'm pretty sure it would just make me care about them even more for having the strength to go through what they almost certainly did.

For me, it depends. I'm a straight cis man, so there isn't really much room for deviation in terms of what kind of anatomy I'm sexually interested in. If you don't have that anatomy, sorry, not interested. I'm happy to be friends, I'm happy to fight against the bigots that try to deny LGBTQ people basic rights, but I don't think having a sexual preference for a given kind of genitalia makes me a bad person.

Pre-op vs post-op makes a huge difference here.

What if that person is already on the pathway to fully transitioning when you met them, they were open about being trans and in the process of fully transitioning and you just happened to meet them before their surgery? You'd dump them because they don't have the "right" genitalia at that moment despite having feelings for the person? Yikes.

 

[watermeloncup]

For me, it depends. I'm a straight cis man, so there isn't really much room for deviation in terms of what kind of anatomy I'm sexually interested in. If you don't have that anatomy, sorry, not interested. I'm happy to be friends, I'm happy to fight against the bigots that try to deny LGBTQ people basic rights, but I don't think having a sexual preference for a given kind of genitalia makes me a bad person.

Pre-op vs post-op makes a huge difference here.

There's nothing wrong with that, no one is expected to be with someone they're not sexually attracted to. I'm sure that's part of the reason why most trans individuals are upfront with their identities when dating, as mpfaff notes.

 

[graylshaped]

I think you guys may be being a little harsh on aerogems. The joke was in poor taste but his subsequent remarks show he's at least engaging in some self-reflection on this point.

I can't speak for others. I'm at a stage in my life where the possibility of being in a new romantic relationship with a trans person or otherwise simply isn't very likely to come up ever again. At least for me, he's right: I can't honestly say I know how I'd react in that situation, especially because I've never really thought about it. Implicit bias is a real thing, working through them takes a lifetime if you've grown up saturated in them, and at least he's being honest on that.

"I'm at a stage in my life where the possibility of being in a new romantic relationship with a trans person or otherwise simply isn't very likely to come up ever again."

A lot can be read into that. I hope you are well.

.

Never say never again?

 

[Adreaver]

Elon Musk won't read any of the comments here on Ars either, what's your point?

And you're still missing the point. Truly internalizing a new thought pattern and associated behavior takes a very long time. The further it is from what you were socialized in, the longer and more effort it takes. This is well documented in social psychology research.

Let me put it this way. I deal with depression. A common problem for depressed people is rumination. We will get stuck in infinite loops replaying various incidents over and over in our mind and beating ourselves up for not handling a situation better. Therapists will tell you that you need to make an effort to catch yourself when you start doing this and then to consciously reject those ideas. However, as anyone who has ever tried to do it will tell you, it's a whole lot easier said than done. It can take years of constant effort to even feel like you're making any progress at all, and decades to get to a point where you start doing it automatically. The same basic principle applies to any other thought pattern.

If you are dating someone, it's starting to get serious, and they then tell you that they are trans (pre or post-op, doesn't matter) can you honestly say that you would be able to tell them that it doesn't matter at all to you, and that you could do that reflexively, in the moment and actually mean it? Never once having even a scintilla of doubt or regret. I think most of us would probably have to answer no if we were being honest. Maybe given a little time to process the situation we would decide our feelings for the person transcend gender, and good for those people, but there would be that moment of hesitation. For a lot of people, it would be the end of the relationship. Many will rationalize it as the person not being honest with them, which is just a bullshit cop-out. None of this is even remotely fair to trans people, and I hope they will live to see the day when no one will give two shits about this sort of thing, but that day isn't today and likely won't be tomorrow. If enough people keep working at it, the day will arrive eventually, however.

If I'm dating someone and it's getting serious, then they told me they were trans - no, it wouldn't even cross my mind to reject someone I care about *that* much over something as silly as they used to be a guy. In fact, I'm pretty sure it would just make me care about them even more for having the strength to go through what they almost certainly did.

For me, it depends. I'm a straight cis man, so there isn't really much room for deviation in terms of what kind of anatomy I'm sexually interested in. If you don't have that anatomy, sorry, not interested. I'm happy to be friends, I'm happy to fight against the bigots that try to deny LGBTQ people basic rights, but I don't think having a sexual preference for a given kind of genitalia makes me a bad person.

Pre-op vs post-op makes a huge difference here.

What if that person is already on the pathway to fully transitioning when you met them, they were open about being trans and in the process of fully transitioning and you just happened to meet them before their surgery? You'd dump them because they don't have the "right" genitalia at that moment despite having feelings for the person? Yikes.

What if we ignore all the context that people are replying to and just decide that their statements mean whatever we want them to mean?

The question posed was a person springing it on you as a surprise when dating starts to get serious, and specifically said "pre or post op doesn't matter".

 

[mpfaff]

One cannot put a price on the outrage, the woke outrage on display in this Arstechnica forum. It’s epic and I must say quite enjoyable to read.
Musk lives rent free in the minds of these woke people.

It was fun seeing these people go from "no private platform is obligated to host your speech, biatch!" to "whaaa! a private platform is getting a new owner and the new owner will make changes to what they host that I don't like!" practically overnight.

Personally, I don't think Elon Musk will allow people to proverbially shit on the floor (like 4chan does for example). After all, Twitter has to make money to pay back the leveraged buyout loans, which means it has to remain attractive to advertisers. I'd be more worried about what will happen during the transition period (considering Twitter has already gone into "code freeze").

The real reason the wokes are annoyed so much is that they want the ability for them to say everything they want on Twitter (up to and including stating that "all they want for Christmas is white genocide" or stating they have the urge to "kneecap white men") while everyone else must be subjected to much higher scrutiny (reaching censorship levels).

The kind of "moderation" we get on Ars is a good indicator of what those people mean by "moderation". For example, yesterday I was banned from Ars for posting "stupid meme images", despite the fact other users are allowed post equally stupid My Little Pony meme images on nearly every thread. When I contacted the mods about it, they said the pony memes were "grandfathered in".

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else. Elon Musk has promised to keep everyone to the same standards, and unsurprisingly the wokes are losing their minds.

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you say stupid shit like "the wokes"? Also Elon has been clear, if it's legal then its fine. Which is the same policy 8chan has, a place that has turned out just great.

So the question everyone has been asking is this: What can't you say on Twitter now that you really want to say?

 

[orwelldesign]

One cannot put a price on the outrage, the woke outrage on display in this Arstechnica forum. It’s epic and I must say quite enjoyable to read.
Musk lives rent free in the minds of these woke people.

It was fun seeing these people go from "no private platform is obligated to host your speech, biatch!" to "whaaa! a private platform is getting a new owner and the new owner will make changes to what they host that I don't like!" practically overnight.

Personally, I don't think Elon Musk will allow people to proverbially shit on the floor (like 4chan does for example). After all, Twitter has to make money to pay back the leveraged buyout loans, which means it has to remain attractive to advertisers. I'd be more worried about what will happen during the transition period (considering Twitter has already gone into "code freeze").

The real reason the wokes are annoyed so much is that they want the ability for them to say everything they want on Twitter (up to and including stating that "all they want for Christmas is white genocide" or stating they have the urge to "kneecap white men") while everyone else must be subjected to much higher scrutiny (reaching censorship levels).

The kind of "moderation" we get on Ars is a good indicator of what those people mean by "moderation". For example, yesterday I was banned from Ars for posting "stupid meme images", despite the fact other users are allowed post equally stupid My Little Pony meme images on nearly every thread. When I contacted the mods about it, they said the pony memes were "grandfathered in".

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else. Elon Musk has promised to keep everyone to the same standards, and unsurprisingly the wokes are losing their minds.

Two quick things: first, did you actually read the article you linked to about "white genocide," which is not actually a thing outside of racist fever dreams? Because the professor was poking fun at a thing that the alt-right believes to be happening, which isn't actually happening. You know that, right? That "white genocide" complaints come from racists, unable to accept a world where they're not the majority, not in charge, and not socially acceptable any longer, right?

Second, if you were banned from ars yesterday, how are you posting *checks notes* one day later? That's a pretty ineffectual ban. You might have been given a time out, but you probably should have been -- UNsurprisingly, you have to be pretty explicitly shitty, repeatedly, to warrant an actual permaban.

 

[watermeloncup]

What if that person is already on the pathway to fully transitioning when you met them, they were open about being trans and in the process of fully transitioning and you just happened to meet them before their surgery? You'd dump them because they don't have the "right" genitalia at that moment despite having feelings for the person? Yikes.

I feel like that's assuming a lot. I think that's something that can only be answered on a case by case basis depending on the expectations and preferences of the people involved.

 

[Sjoerd Verweij]

You don't have to date trans people or go out of your way to make friends. But at the very least, the decent thing. to do is to be an ally.

Or if you can't be an ally, stay the fuck out of it. I have several (older) people in my family who find gay and trans people icky. That's not going to change. I do take some small pride in slowly bringing them around from borderline "they should not exist" to "don't look at things that are icky to you".

Sidenote: who looks at Kimberly Guilfoyle and worries about her gender? All I see is coked-out loony-tunes sociopath. Is that just me?

Edit: s/do not exist/should not exist. Their views were pretty odious back then.

 

[mpfaff]

For me, it depends. I'm a straight cis man, so there isn't really much room for deviation in terms of what kind of anatomy I'm sexually interested in. If you don't have that anatomy, sorry, not interested. I'm happy to be friends, I'm happy to fight against the bigots that try to deny LGBTQ people basic rights, but I don't think having a sexual preference for a given kind of genitalia makes me a bad person.

Pre-op vs post-op makes a huge difference here.

There's nothing wrong with that, no one is expected to be with someone they're not sexually attracted to. I'm sure that's part of the reason why most trans individuals are upfront with their identities when dating, as mpfaff notes.

The trans women I've talked to have said it's a a big safety thing. Guys can react pretty poorly and get emotional quick when they feel like they've been deceived in that way.

I've always felt bad for trans people when it comes to dating because I feel like they fall into a gap as far as sexual preference goes. Heterosexual people prefer the opposite sex in every way and homosexual people prefer the same one and someone who was born one way and presents another might have issues finding someone who doesn't just have a fetish and will go down the road in a relationship.

 

[Sjoerd Verweij]

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else.

Remember kids, with the right, it is always -- ALWAYS -- projection.

 

[orwelldesign]

Well, then,... I admire you even more than before knowing this. Good on you for doing this. Stop the bullying and aggression as soon as it starts.

We have at least four things in common: 6' 4" height, liberal, weapon ownership, and the a fearlessness (or at least willingness) for needed confrontational defense.

I really appreciate it that he now knows that "democrat" is not synonymous with "coward" or "snowflake."

Keep up the good fight.

You guys have two inches on me. Otherwise, this Club is somewhat bigger than I'd have thought it to be.

I've even got the felony battery charges to prove it.

(In one of the two cases, I was *absolutely* guilty as charged, and did my bit; in the other, the only time I've ever actually lawyered up, I was both not guilty and innocent. *taps head* I've also been 'not guilty' a few times when the government couldn't or didn't do their job.)

It's been awhile since I've had cuffs on, though, and I vastly prefer being a law abiding citizen to who I was then.

I'm 6' 3", so count me in that club also.

The soft liberal is somewhat a myth -- I know a lot of well-armed Democrats. We just, almost uniformly, aren't gun fetishists. A gun is just a thing I own, I don't place much further relevance to it. I don't need a Gadsden flag to exercise my rights, and don't advertise my gun ownership.

Though I do wish I could display my NRA pistol certifications without everyone thinking I'm a deranged gun nut; I'm not, just a naturally good shot.

(The felony charge I spoke of just a few posts ago was expunged, in case anyone was wondering -- I'm a fully legal carrier. Being a good citizen has been great for me. Hell, I'm an AAA member who gets timely oil changes done, and I pay a healthy tax that seems eminently fair, especially given that during a few rough patches I've been on EBT/welfare. Safety nets are important and I'm not mad at all to fund them)

 

[Deleted member 817175]

I think you guys may be being a little harsh on aerogems. The joke was in poor taste but his subsequent remarks show he's at least engaging in some self-reflection on this point.

I can't speak for others. I'm at a stage in my life where the possibility of being in a new romantic relationship with a trans person or otherwise simply isn't very likely to come up ever again. At least for me, he's right: I can't honestly say I know how I'd react in that situation, especially because I've never really thought about it. Implicit bias is a real thing, working through them takes a lifetime if you've grown up saturated in them, and at least he's being honest on that.

"I'm at a stage in my life where the possibility of being in a new romantic relationship with a trans person or otherwise simply isn't very likely to come up ever again."

A lot can be read into that. I hope you are well.

.

I didn't mean that to be some sort of omenous message. It's just that I'm happily partnered, not getting any younger, and hence it isn't the sort of question I think about these days. Who my kids may end up partnering with is of more relevance. On that point I know I wouldn't care. But that's a pretty low bar to live up to.

 

[kurkosdr]

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else.

Remember kids, with the right, it is always -- ALWAYS -- projection.

How many tweets calling for genociding or kneecapping a certain group of people (other than "white people" and "white men") were made and stayed up?

 

[Uragan]

What if that person is already on the pathway to fully transitioning when you met them, they were open about being trans and in the process of fully transitioning and you just happened to meet them before their surgery? You'd dump them because they don't have the "right" genitalia at that moment despite having feelings for the person? Yikes.

I feel like that's assuming a lot. I think that's something that can only be answered on a case by case basis depending on the expectations and preferences of the people involved.

You know what... you're right. I definitely assumed too much and apologize for that.

 

[Deleted member 817175]

In light of kurkos's recent post it would seem that so far the list of things identified in this thread that we need to free Twitter so we can post includes:

1.) recruitment statements for ISIS

2.) the wrong gender pronouns

3.) calls for violence

Well I'm sold. Clearly Twitter is a worse place without these.

 

[kurkosdr]

In light of kurkos's recent post it would seem that so far the list of things identified in this thread that we need to free Twitter so we can post includes:

1.) recruitment statements for ISIS

2.) the wrong gender pronouns

3.) calls for violence

Well I'm sold.

How about banning bad things and keeping everyone to the same standard? A shocking proposal, I know...

PS: Gender pronouns? Oh, whatever, as long as it's part of the rules and enforced uniformly, it's not the point at hand.

 

[mpfaff]

One cannot put a price on the outrage, the woke outrage on display in this Arstechnica forum. It’s epic and I must say quite enjoyable to read.
Musk lives rent free in the minds of these woke people.

It was fun seeing these people go from "no private platform is obligated to host your speech, biatch!" to "whaaa! a private platform is getting a new owner and the new owner will make changes to what they host that I don't like!" practically overnight.

Personally, I don't think Elon Musk will allow people to proverbially shit on the floor (like 4chan does for example). After all, Twitter has to make money to pay back the leveraged buyout loans, which means it has to remain attractive to advertisers. I'd be more worried about what will happen during the transition period (considering Twitter has already gone into "code freeze").

The real reason the wokes are annoyed so much is that they want the ability for them to say everything they want on Twitter (up to and including stating that "all they want for Christmas is white genocide" or stating they have the urge to "kneecap white men") while everyone else must be subjected to much higher scrutiny (reaching censorship levels).

The kind of "moderation" we get on Ars is a good indicator of what those people mean by "moderation". For example, yesterday I was banned from Ars for posting "stupid meme images", despite the fact other users are allowed post equally stupid My Little Pony meme images on nearly every thread. When I contacted the mods about it, they said the pony memes were "grandfathered in".

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else. Elon Musk has promised to keep everyone to the same standards, and unsurprisingly the wokes are losing their minds.

Two quick things: first, did you actually read the article you linked to about "white genocide," which is not actually a thing outside of racist fever dreams? Because the professor was poking fun at a thing that the alt-right believes to be happening, which isn't actually happening. You know that, right? That "white genocide" complaints come from racists, unable to accept a world where they're not the majority, not in charge, and not socially acceptable any longer, right?

Second, if you were banned from ars yesterday, how are you posting *checks notes* one day later? That's a pretty ineffectual ban. You might have been given a time out, but you probably should have been -- UNsurprisingly, you have to be pretty explicitly shitty, repeatedly, to warrant an actual permaban.

The funny thing about the nuts who believe in "white genocide" is when you look into it, it's not white people getting rounded up and murdered. It's white people making babies with people who aren't white and morons thinking it's a conspiracy.

 

[ZippyPeanut]

I think you guys may be being a little harsh on aerogems. The joke was in poor taste but his subsequent remarks show he's at least engaging in some self-reflection on this point.

I can't speak for others. I'm at a stage in my life where the possibility of being in a new romantic relationship with a trans person or otherwise simply isn't very likely to come up ever again. At least for me, he's right: I can't honestly say I know how I'd react in that situation, especially because I've never really thought about it. Implicit bias is a real thing, working through them takes a lifetime if you've grown up saturated in them, and at least he's being honest on that.

"I'm at a stage in my life where the possibility of being in a new romantic relationship with a trans person or otherwise simply isn't very likely to come up ever again."

A lot can be read into that. I hope you are well.

.

I didn't mean that to be some sort of omenous message. It's just that I'm happily partnered, not getting any younger, and hence it isn't the sort of question I think about these days. Who my kids may end up partnering with is of more relevance. On that point I know I wouldn't care. But that's a pretty low bar to live up to.

Good to know.

Same here, but without the kids (by choice of us both).

I might mention that I know an 84-year-old man who recently found a new romantic partner. When talking about it, his voice took on the a delightful exuberance and youthful joy!

 

[Fancy Internet Person]

Discussing the hypothetical types of transition and surgery plans of hypothetical future partners can also veer really gross and objectifying really quickly.

Date who you want and have sex with who you want, but also, there's no deception involved.

Also also, your preference in who you fuck should not factor into treating people with dignity and respect.

 

[kurkosdr]

One cannot put a price on the outrage, the woke outrage on display in this Arstechnica forum. It’s epic and I must say quite enjoyable to read.
Musk lives rent free in the minds of these woke people.

It was fun seeing these people go from "no private platform is obligated to host your speech, biatch!" to "whaaa! a private platform is getting a new owner and the new owner will make changes to what they host that I don't like!" practically overnight.

Personally, I don't think Elon Musk will allow people to proverbially shit on the floor (like 4chan does for example). After all, Twitter has to make money to pay back the leveraged buyout loans, which means it has to remain attractive to advertisers. I'd be more worried about what will happen during the transition period (considering Twitter has already gone into "code freeze").

The real reason the wokes are annoyed so much is that they want the ability for them to say everything they want on Twitter (up to and including stating that "all they want for Christmas is white genocide" or stating they have the urge to "kneecap white men") while everyone else must be subjected to much higher scrutiny (reaching censorship levels).

The kind of "moderation" we get on Ars is a good indicator of what those people mean by "moderation". For example, yesterday I was banned from Ars for posting "stupid meme images", despite the fact other users are allowed post equally stupid My Little Pony meme images on nearly every thread. When I contacted the mods about it, they said the pony memes were "grandfathered in".

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else. Elon Musk has promised to keep everyone to the same standards, and unsurprisingly the wokes are losing their minds.

Two quick things: first, did you actually read the article you linked to about "white genocide," which is not actually a thing outside of racist fever dreams? Because the professor was poking fun at a thing that the alt-right believes to be happening, which isn't actually happening. You know that, right? That "white genocide" complaints come from racists, unable to accept a world where they're not the majority, not in charge, and not socially acceptable any longer, right?

Ah... yes, the Schrödinger joker, aka posting vile stuff and then maybe say it's a joke depending on how people react.

 

[Adreaver]

Discussing the hypothetical types of transition and surgery plans of hypothetical future partners can also veer really gross and objectifying really quickly.

Date who you want and have sex with who you want, but also, there's no deception involved.

Also also, your preference in who you fuck should not factor into treating people with dignity and respect.

This.

I have zero interest whatsoever in having a sexual relationship with gay men. I also have zero interest whatsoever in tolerating bigots who think gay men deserve any less respect or rights than anyone else.

 

[watermeloncup]

What if that person is already on the pathway to fully transitioning when you met them, they were open about being trans and in the process of fully transitioning and you just happened to meet them before their surgery? You'd dump them because they don't have the "right" genitalia at that moment despite having feelings for the person? Yikes.

I feel like that's assuming a lot. I think that's something that can only be answered on a case by case basis depending on the expectations and preferences of the people involved.

You know what... you're right. I definitely assumed too much and apologize for that.

No worries! FWIW as a hypothetical I think it would be shitty behavior or poor communication, I was just objecting to applying that to a general situation. I'm all for sexual experimentation.

 

[orwelldesign]

"The Wokes"

The stupid, it burnses.

If he said "The Awakened" people might think he was talking about Mage: The Ascension.

But, man, using woke as a pejorative sure makes it easy to get my "click the ignore button" muscles their reps.

Good for both of us, I guess. You don't read stuff you don't want to read, and I save a biased downvote.

When will people understand we really don't care about their ignore lists because they only affect them? Unlike, say, blocks on Twitter, which do affect the user you are blocking, so it makes sense to announce it so others don't expect any replies from that user.

Can we go through one Ars thread without anyone announcing who they are ignoring? They might as well announce their bookmarks or what their screen resolution is. Talk about "doesn't contribute".

You missed my point entirely, which I completely expected -- it wasn't about you. At all. It's about using "the wokes" as a pejorative, because it's silly. All it does is demonstrate that you think (wrongly) that "the left" is a monolith, bound by orthodoxy. It isn't, and we aren't.

"The wokes" think people shouldn't be harassed for who they are. Why am I such a fervent supporter of trans rights? Two reasons -- I was an asshole to a trans person in the 90s, who transitioned in highschool over the summer, and I didn't know any better, and I have a trans son. He's identified as a boy since he was three. He's my son. He's been my son the whole time; I just didn't know it until he had the least surprising coming out of all time. I'm bisexual, and have identified as such since *way* before it was cool.

So it's not theoretical, for me -- and as a DIRECT result of my experience with my son, and Patricia, I am more capable of empathy, so I listen to my lgtbq friends, and listen to my black friends, about their experiences with the world, and even though racism is outside my personal experience (I'm white) I'll absolutely give credit to people who say they're having an experience that differs from mine. I have two trans friends, one pre-op, one post-op, and they're comfortable telling me about the lives they're living.

That is, when people tell me "it hurts when this happens," I'm adult enough to say "I'm sorry, I didn't realize," and try to be better for the future -- instead of saying "fuck your feelings" and doubling down on being an asshole.

 

[ZippyPeanut]

Discussing the hypothetical types of transition and surgery plans of hypothetical future partners can also veer really gross and objectifying really quickly.

Date who you want and have sex with who you want, but also, there's no deception involved.

Also also, your preference in who you fuck should not factor into treating people with dignity and respect.

"...have sex with who you want..."

Easier said than done. Jeri Ryan thinks I'm a creep.

 

[Adreaver]

One cannot put a price on the outrage, the woke outrage on display in this Arstechnica forum. It’s epic and I must say quite enjoyable to read.
Musk lives rent free in the minds of these woke people.

It was fun seeing these people go from "no private platform is obligated to host your speech, biatch!" to "whaaa! a private platform is getting a new owner and the new owner will make changes to what they host that I don't like!" practically overnight.

Personally, I don't think Elon Musk will allow people to proverbially shit on the floor (like 4chan does for example). After all, Twitter has to make money to pay back the leveraged buyout loans, which means it has to remain attractive to advertisers. I'd be more worried about what will happen during the transition period (considering Twitter has already gone into "code freeze").

The real reason the wokes are annoyed so much is that they want the ability for them to say everything they want on Twitter (up to and including stating that "all they want for Christmas is white genocide" or stating they have the urge to "kneecap white men") while everyone else must be subjected to much higher scrutiny (reaching censorship levels).

The kind of "moderation" we get on Ars is a good indicator of what those people mean by "moderation". For example, yesterday I was banned from Ars for posting "stupid meme images", despite the fact other users are allowed post equally stupid My Little Pony meme images on nearly every thread. When I contacted the mods about it, they said the pony memes were "grandfathered in".

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else. Elon Musk has promised to keep everyone to the same standards, and unsurprisingly the wokes are losing their minds.

Two quick things: first, did you actually read the article you linked to about "white genocide," which is not actually a thing outside of racist fever dreams? Because the professor was poking fun at a thing that the alt-right believes to be happening, which isn't actually happening. You know that, right? That "white genocide" complaints come from racists, unable to accept a world where they're not the majority, not in charge, and not socially acceptable any longer, right?

Ah... yes, the Schrödinger joker, aka posting vile stuff and then maybe say it's a joke depending on how people react.

The professor in question had previous satirical writings mocking the idea of white genocide as a right-wing boogeyman that doesn't exist prior to the tweet you are all pissed off about, so no, it was actually satire the whole time, but thanks for playing.

 

[Uragan]

One cannot put a price on the outrage, the woke outrage on display in this Arstechnica forum. It’s epic and I must say quite enjoyable to read.
Musk lives rent free in the minds of these woke people.

It was fun seeing these people go from "no private platform is obligated to host your speech, biatch!" to "whaaa! a private platform is getting a new owner and the new owner will make changes to what they host that I don't like!" practically overnight.

Personally, I don't think Elon Musk will allow people to proverbially shit on the floor (like 4chan does for example). After all, Twitter has to make money to pay back the leveraged buyout loans, which means it has to remain attractive to advertisers. I'd be more worried about what will happen during the transition period (considering Twitter has already gone into "code freeze").

The real reason the wokes are annoyed so much is that they want the ability for them to say everything they want on Twitter (up to and including stating that "all they want for Christmas is white genocide" or stating they have the urge to "kneecap white men") while everyone else must be subjected to much higher scrutiny (reaching censorship levels).

The kind of "moderation" we get on Ars is a good indicator of what those people mean by "moderation". For example, yesterday I was banned from Ars for posting "stupid meme images", despite the fact other users are allowed post equally stupid My Little Pony meme images on nearly every thread. When I contacted the mods about it, they said the pony memes were "grandfathered in".

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else. Elon Musk has promised to keep everyone to the same standards, and unsurprisingly the wokes are losing their minds.

Two quick things: first, did you actually read the article you linked to about "white genocide," which is not actually a thing outside of racist fever dreams? Because the professor was poking fun at a thing that the alt-right believes to be happening, which isn't actually happening. You know that, right? That "white genocide" complaints come from racists, unable to accept a world where they're not the majority, not in charge, and not socially acceptable any longer, right?

Ah... yes, the Schrödinger joker, aka posting vile stuff and then maybe say it's a joke depending on how people react.

I mean, you're the expert at this since you were going hog wild when we were discussing Richard Stallman and the FSF.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

"The Terms of Service, in its majestic equality, forbids the Left and the Right alike from persecuting ethnic minorities, oppressing people based on their sexual identity or orientation, fomenting the overthrow of democratically elected governments, and openly planning illegal acts."

 

[mpfaff]

One cannot put a price on the outrage, the woke outrage on display in this Arstechnica forum. It’s epic and I must say quite enjoyable to read.
Musk lives rent free in the minds of these woke people.

It was fun seeing these people go from "no private platform is obligated to host your speech, biatch!" to "whaaa! a private platform is getting a new owner and the new owner will make changes to what they host that I don't like!" practically overnight.

Personally, I don't think Elon Musk will allow people to proverbially shit on the floor (like 4chan does for example). After all, Twitter has to make money to pay back the leveraged buyout loans, which means it has to remain attractive to advertisers. I'd be more worried about what will happen during the transition period (considering Twitter has already gone into "code freeze").

The real reason the wokes are annoyed so much is that they want the ability for them to say everything they want on Twitter (up to and including stating that "all they want for Christmas is white genocide" or stating they have the urge to "kneecap white men") while everyone else must be subjected to much higher scrutiny (reaching censorship levels).

The kind of "moderation" we get on Ars is a good indicator of what those people mean by "moderation". For example, yesterday I was banned from Ars for posting "stupid meme images", despite the fact other users are allowed post equally stupid My Little Pony meme images on nearly every thread. When I contacted the mods about it, they said the pony memes were "grandfathered in".

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else. Elon Musk has promised to keep everyone to the same standards, and unsurprisingly the wokes are losing their minds.

Two quick things: first, did you actually read the article you linked to about "white genocide," which is not actually a thing outside of racist fever dreams? Because the professor was poking fun at a thing that the alt-right believes to be happening, which isn't actually happening. You know that, right? That "white genocide" complaints come from racists, unable to accept a world where they're not the majority, not in charge, and not socially acceptable any longer, right?

Ah... yes, the Schrödinger joker, aka posting vile stuff and then maybe say it's a joke depending on how people react.

They're the same thing,, of course, I'm so silly. Referencing something that doesn't exist (white genocide) and degrading marginalized people. It's not shrodinger's joke, "white genocide" is a joke whether or not the person saying it is serious, because the concept is moronic to the point of parody.

 

[BulkyZ]

One cannot put a price on the outrage, the woke outrage on display in this Arstechnica forum. It’s epic and I must say quite enjoyable to read.
Musk lives rent free in the minds of these woke people.

It was fun seeing these people go from "no private platform is obligated to host your speech, biatch!" to "whaaa! a private platform is getting a new owner and the new owner will make changes to what they host that I don't like!" practically overnight.

Personally, I don't think Elon Musk will allow people to proverbially shit on the floor (like 4chan does for example). After all, Twitter has to make money to pay back the leveraged buyout loans, which means it has to remain attractive to advertisers. I'd be more worried about what will happen during the transition period (considering Twitter has already gone into "code freeze").

The real reason the wokes are annoyed so much is that they want the ability for them to say everything they want on Twitter (up to and including stating that "all they want for Christmas is white genocide" or stating they have the urge to "kneecap white men") while everyone else must be subjected to much higher scrutiny (reaching censorship levels).

The kind of "moderation" we get on Ars is a good indicator of what those people mean by "moderation". For example, yesterday I was banned from Ars for posting "stupid meme images", despite the fact other users are allowed post equally stupid My Little Pony meme images on nearly every thread. When I contacted the mods about it, they said the pony memes were "grandfathered in".

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else. Elon Musk has promised to keep everyone to the same standards, and unsurprisingly the wokes are losing their minds.

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you say stupid shit like "the wokes"? Also Elon has been clear, if it's legal then its fine. Which is the same policy 8chan has, a place that has turned out just great.

So the question everyone has been asking is this: What can't you say on Twitter now that you really want to say?

Kashmir citizens could look forwards to their posts on being attacked by India were pruned in a pretty timely matter.

If you suggested therapeutics over vaccination you could look forwards to an account suspension or ban. Moreover suggesting that a person didn't need a vaccine immediately after becoming sick also earned you the same treatment.

The Unity Party was banned from Twitter in 2020.

 

[nvfx]

One cannot put a price on the outrage, the woke outrage on display in this Arstechnica forum. It’s epic and I must say quite enjoyable to read.
Musk lives rent free in the minds of these woke people.

It was fun seeing these people go from "no private platform is obligated to host your speech, biatch!" to "whaaa! a private platform is getting a new owner and the new owner will make changes to what they host that I don't like!" practically overnight.

Personally, I don't think Elon Musk will allow people to proverbially shit on the floor (like 4chan does for example). After all, Twitter has to make money to pay back the leveraged buyout loans, which means it has to remain attractive to advertisers. I'd be more worried about what will happen during the transition period (considering Twitter has already gone into "code freeze").

The real reason the wokes are annoyed so much is that they want the ability for them to say everything they want on Twitter (up to and including stating that "all they want for Christmas is white genocide" or stating they have the urge to "kneecap white men") while everyone else must be subjected to much higher scrutiny (reaching censorship levels).

The kind of "moderation" we get on Ars is a good indicator of what those people mean by "moderation". For example, yesterday I was banned from Ars for posting "stupid meme images", despite the fact other users are allowed post equally stupid My Little Pony meme images on nearly every thread. When I contacted the mods about it, they said the pony memes were "grandfathered in".

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else. Elon Musk has promised to keep everyone to the same standards, and unsurprisingly the wokes are losing their minds.

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you say stupid shit like "the wokes"? Also Elon has been clear, if it's legal then its fine. Which is the same policy 8chan has, a place that has turned out just great.

So the question everyone has been asking is this: What can't you say on Twitter now that you really want to say?

I personally would like to see standards enforced uniformly. For example, people who call for violence, for example saying they can barely resist their urge to "kneecap white men" should be banned because it's a call for violence and I happen to be a white man who likes his kneecaps.

But yeah, I know, it's a joke...

(sorry to inteject)

 

[Adreaver]

One cannot put a price on the outrage, the woke outrage on display in this Arstechnica forum. It’s epic and I must say quite enjoyable to read.
Musk lives rent free in the minds of these woke people.

It was fun seeing these people go from "no private platform is obligated to host your speech, biatch!" to "whaaa! a private platform is getting a new owner and the new owner will make changes to what they host that I don't like!" practically overnight.

Personally, I don't think Elon Musk will allow people to proverbially shit on the floor (like 4chan does for example). After all, Twitter has to make money to pay back the leveraged buyout loans, which means it has to remain attractive to advertisers. I'd be more worried about what will happen during the transition period (considering Twitter has already gone into "code freeze").

The real reason the wokes are annoyed so much is that they want the ability for them to say everything they want on Twitter (up to and including stating that "all they want for Christmas is white genocide" or stating they have the urge to "kneecap white men") while everyone else must be subjected to much higher scrutiny (reaching censorship levels).

The kind of "moderation" we get on Ars is a good indicator of what those people mean by "moderation". For example, yesterday I was banned from Ars for posting "stupid meme images", despite the fact other users are allowed post equally stupid My Little Pony meme images on nearly every thread. When I contacted the mods about it, they said the pony memes were "grandfathered in".

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else. Elon Musk has promised to keep everyone to the same standards, and unsurprisingly the wokes are losing their minds.

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you say stupid shit like "the wokes"? Also Elon has been clear, if it's legal then its fine. Which is the same policy 8chan has, a place that has turned out just great.

So the question everyone has been asking is this: What can't you say on Twitter now that you really want to say?

I'd like to see standards enforced uniformly. For example, people who call for violence, for example saying they can barely resist their urge to kneecap white men should be banned because it's a call for violence and I happen to be white man who likes his kneecaps.

But yeah, I know, it's a joke...

That's not a call to violence.

"Everyone should go out and kneecap white men!" is a call to violence. "Everyday I resist the urge to kneecap white men" is a tone deaf and stupid statement to make, but it isn't calling for violence. If anything, it is calling for people to resist violent impulses.

 

[mpfaff]

One cannot put a price on the outrage, the woke outrage on display in this Arstechnica forum. It’s epic and I must say quite enjoyable to read.
Musk lives rent free in the minds of these woke people.

It was fun seeing these people go from "no private platform is obligated to host your speech, biatch!" to "whaaa! a private platform is getting a new owner and the new owner will make changes to what they host that I don't like!" practically overnight.

Personally, I don't think Elon Musk will allow people to proverbially shit on the floor (like 4chan does for example). After all, Twitter has to make money to pay back the leveraged buyout loans, which means it has to remain attractive to advertisers. I'd be more worried about what will happen during the transition period (considering Twitter has already gone into "code freeze").

The real reason the wokes are annoyed so much is that they want the ability for them to say everything they want on Twitter (up to and including stating that "all they want for Christmas is white genocide" or stating they have the urge to "kneecap white men") while everyone else must be subjected to much higher scrutiny (reaching censorship levels).

The kind of "moderation" we get on Ars is a good indicator of what those people mean by "moderation". For example, yesterday I was banned from Ars for posting "stupid meme images", despite the fact other users are allowed post equally stupid My Little Pony meme images on nearly every thread. When I contacted the mods about it, they said the pony memes were "grandfathered in".

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else. Elon Musk has promised to keep everyone to the same standards, and unsurprisingly the wokes are losing their minds.

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you say stupid shit like "the wokes"? Also Elon has been clear, if it's legal then its fine. Which is the same policy 8chan has, a place that has turned out just great.

So the question everyone has been asking is this: What can't you say on Twitter now that you really want to say?

Kashmir citizens could look forwards to their posts on being attacked by India were pruned in a pretty timely matter.

If you suggested therapeutics over vaccination you could look forwards to an account suspension or ban. Moreover suggesting that a person didn't need a vaccine immediately after becoming sick also earned you the same treatment.

The Unity Party was banned from Twitter in 2020.

The covid therapeutics nonsense was largely junk science people plugging drugs that didn't work or that bleach shit. The rest of it is outside the United States and won't be protected by the Musk owned twitter, because he's also said he's complying with the laws of other countries too.

 

[Sjoerd Verweij]

Well, then,... I admire you even more than before knowing this. Good on you for doing this. Stop the bullying and aggression as soon as it starts.

We have at least four things in common: 6' 4" height, liberal, weapon ownership, and the a fearlessness (or at least willingness) for needed confrontational defense.

I really appreciate it that he now knows that "democrat" is not synonymous with "coward" or "snowflake."

Keep up the good fight.

You guys have two inches on me. Otherwise, this Club is somewhat bigger than I'd have thought it to be.

I've even got the felony battery charges to prove it.

(In one of the two cases, I was *absolutely* guilty as charged, and did my bit; in the other, the only time I've ever actually lawyered up, I was both not guilty and innocent. *taps head* I've also been 'not guilty' a few times when the government couldn't or didn't do their job.)

It's been awhile since I've had cuffs on, though, and I vastly prefer being a law abiding citizen to who I was then.

I'm 6' 3", so count me in that club also.

6'3" here too. Phew. I was starting to feel short.*

Although I will admit that my 12-gauges have a totally liberal wuss "not a stand-your-ground state" load -- the first two shells are beanbags.

* Not entirely surprised at the overrepresentation of taller folks. Totally fits my preconceived notion slash hypothesis that there is at least some correlation between being short and being an asshole -- it's never the 7 footer that starts the barfight, it's the 5'5" dipshit in platforms.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

One cannot put a price on the outrage, the woke outrage on display in this Arstechnica forum. It’s epic and I must say quite enjoyable to read.
Musk lives rent free in the minds of these woke people.

It was fun seeing these people go from "no private platform is obligated to host your speech, biatch!" to "whaaa! a private platform is getting a new owner and the new owner will make changes to what they host that I don't like!" practically overnight.

Personally, I don't think Elon Musk will allow people to proverbially shit on the floor (like 4chan does for example). After all, Twitter has to make money to pay back the leveraged buyout loans, which means it has to remain attractive to advertisers. I'd be more worried about what will happen during the transition period (considering Twitter has already gone into "code freeze").

The real reason the wokes are annoyed so much is that they want the ability for them to say everything they want on Twitter (up to and including stating that "all they want for Christmas is white genocide" or stating they have the urge to "kneecap white men") while everyone else must be subjected to much higher scrutiny (reaching censorship levels).

The kind of "moderation" we get on Ars is a good indicator of what those people mean by "moderation". For example, yesterday I was banned from Ars for posting "stupid meme images", despite the fact other users are allowed post equally stupid My Little Pony meme images on nearly every thread. When I contacted the mods about it, they said the pony memes were "grandfathered in".

In plain English, wokes want the ability for themselves to proverbially shit on the floor, but not for anyone else. Elon Musk has promised to keep everyone to the same standards, and unsurprisingly the wokes are losing their minds.

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you say stupid shit like "the wokes"? Also Elon has been clear, if it's legal then its fine. Which is the same policy 8chan has, a place that has turned out just great.

So the question everyone has been asking is this: What can't you say on Twitter now that you really want to say?

Kashmir citizens could look forwards to their posts on being attacked by India were pruned in a pretty timely matter.

If you suggested therapeutics over vaccination you could look forwards to an account suspension or ban. Moreover suggesting that a person didn't need a vaccine immediately after becoming sick also earned you the same treatment.

The Unity Party was banned from Twitter in 2020.

The covid therapeutics nonsense was largely junk science people plugging drugs that didn't work or that bleach shit. The rest of it is outside the United States and won't be protected by the Musk owned twitter, because he's also said he's complying with the laws of other countries too.

You're calling Peter McCullough a junk scientist?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_A._McCullough

Peter Andrew McCullough (/məˈkʌlə/;[1] born December 29, 1962) is an American cardiologist.[2] He was vice chief of internal medicine at Baylor University Medical Center and a professor at Texas A&M University.[3]

During the COVID-19 pandemic, McCullough has promoted misinformation about COVID-19, the COVID-19 vaccine, and COVID-19 treatments.[4][5][6]

I mean, your link is.

 

[graylshaped]

Recent reports show Sean Hannity acting as part of the executive administration. Should First Amendment principles now be imposed on Fox News, restricting them from not allowing alternative viewpoints?