After ruining Android messaging, Google says iMessage is too powerful

Google failed to compete with iMessage for years. Now it wants Apple to play nice.

Read the whole story

 

[Martin Blank]

Correct, the solution exists, and it is called Signal.

Signal is my main texting app these days. But interoperability is its Achilles' heel. Moxie and co. need to stabilize the feature set and make it an open protocol asap.

The recent move to include sending and receiving cryptocurrency (at least outside the US) is worrisome. First, it's feature creep and additional attack surface. Second, it's a further reason that regulators will use to justify banning end-to-end encryption as we now have it.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

Google RCS is a failure. I've tried to use it and it is based on registering your phone number with Google so that you can use RCS. I rather just use SMS even if it is an old system.

Technically, you don't need to register or use Google's message program to use RCS. Just about every phone from the last few years on Tmobile, save the iphone of course, is RCS enabled, period.

Of course since not every carrier uses the same RCS profile, and most of anyone I know doesn't use android, I can't actually test it. And Signal can't use RCS, and Android was trying to bring RCS to 3rd party apps forever now, and maybe android 12 has it.

 

[effgee]

*sigh* you know those green bubbles everyone's talking about here. Well, those green bubble chats you're having aren't encrypted.

… which Apple spells out clearly in its own documentation.

Apple Support[/url]":37vykotz]”… SMS/MMS messages aren't encrypted and appear in green text bubbles on your device. …”

That is why regular SMS/MMS are in a different color. The point you are trying to make, it isn’t one.

 

[graylshaped]

This article misses the mental health forest for the platform technology trees. Apple may not be "the bully", but they definitely are "the enabler".

A single update to iMessage could've stopped all of this bubble-ist/color-ist shit.

Provide one reason why Apple should enable Google.

 

[Mr. Kite]

Back in my online dating days, I did genuinely (more than once!) have women say "ew no thank you" when I texted them and a green bubble popped up on their screen. It's something that even non-tech people will notice and care about, so I'm not surprised to hear that it's causing stress for teens. I'd love to see the broader tech industry coalesce on a modern messaging standard that's device and carrier agnostic, but I'm not holding my breath, especially given Google's history.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet. If a woman is so shallow they'll reject someone because of the brand phone they have then they're not worth dating,

Maybe, just maybe, those women were saying ew to the content.

 

[JakJok]

Use RCS? Yeah, no thanks Google. I don't want some jank, carrier-controlled message service.

I'd simply disable it since I don't want my messages tied to a single SIM card.

 

[balthazarr]

This article misses the mental health forest for the platform technology trees. Apple may not be "the bully", but they definitely are "the enabler".

A single update to iMessage could've stopped all of this bubble-ist/color-ist shit.

I mean, seriously. FFS.

If your problems in life revolve around the fucking colour of a message bubble - congratulations, you have too much time on your hands. Enjoy the idyllic life while it lasts.

Some of us have real problems to deal with.

 

[anonymouschicken]

Back in my online dating days, I did genuinely (more than once!) have women say "ew no thank you" when I texted them and a green bubble popped up on their screen. It's something that even non-tech people will notice and care about, so I'm not surprised to hear that it's causing stress for teens. I'd love to see the broader tech industry coalesce on a modern messaging standard that's device and carrier agnostic, but I'm not holding my breath, especially given Google's history.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet. If a woman is so shallow they'll reject someone because of the brand phone they have then they're not worth dating,

Maybe, just maybe, those women were saying ew to the content.

Lol, the content was typically something like "Hey, this is [name] from [app]." The "ew" was directed at the green bubble, not anything I actually said.

 

[Fred Duck]

Personally, I'd probably find it very difficult to date someone not using iOS devices because I don't have a mobile number but do have a variety of iOS devices at hand.

Clarification: This means that I can exchange messages with other iOS users but cannot do SMS at all. Additionally, I can't sign up for messenger apps such as Signal which require a mobile number.

I learned long ago to silence the voice in my head that yells out, "Learn to use your fucking software!" when I see an email that ends with, "sent from my iPhone." instead of a proper signature.

Actually, that notice is useful. It lets you know that the person isn't using a computer for that particular email and is most likely simply typing with an onscreen keyboard, meaning the text may not be as polished and edited as usual, may not contain as many links, may be shorter, etc. Additionally, they are likely away from their computer. A less specific "sent from my mobile" would not exclude devices with keyboards, so is less information-dense.

(While it's true that you can pair a physical keyboard with most iOS devices, that's not very common.)

 

[balthazarr]

Back in my online dating days, I did genuinely (more than once!) have women say "ew no thank you" when I texted them and a green bubble popped up on their screen. It's something that even non-tech people will notice and care about, so I'm not surprised to hear that it's causing stress for teens. I'd love to see the broader tech industry coalesce on a modern messaging standard that's device and carrier agnostic, but I'm not holding my breath, especially given Google's history.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet. If a woman is so shallow they'll reject someone because of the brand phone they have then they're not worth dating,

Maybe, just maybe, those women were saying ew to the content.

Lol, the content was typically something like "Hey, this is [name] from [app]." The "ew" was directed at the green bubble, not anything I actually said.

Haha... perhaps the "ew" was "ew... that guy from that app is messaging me"?

Nah - must be the green bubble

 

[JakJok]

Come on Ron, this is silly. Whining or not Apple needs to start enabling RCS.

Why? So carriers can go back to charging premium add-on fees for texting? No thanks.

And if you think AT&T and Verizon wouldn't try that, you're hopelessly naive.

 

[phuul]

Only if you'll agree that the iMessages protocol (based on APN) had to duct tape TLS on top and it isn't exactly what you might call seamless. Plus it can only be used on 1 to 1 messages with iphones.

(that actually hurt my brain using your thought process. lets agree not to do this again. lol)

Seeing as you managed to get it wrong, I think that’s a good idea.

*sigh* you know those green bubbles everyone's talking about here. Well, those green bubble chats you're having aren't encrypted.
.
https://lifehacker.com/apple-can-read-y ... 1847811684

1. All iMessage conversations, including group conversations, are encrypted.
2. There is an iMessage app for macOS so a phone is not required.
3. The whole reason for the green bubbles is so the user will know they are using unencrypted SMS and not the encrypted iMessage.

I'm not opposed to Apple implementing RCS. It' s not going to solve anything though. The only thing it will do is to add another acronym to the fallback list of SMS and MMS. With a SIM requirement and lack of encryption it's just another carrier protocol and an outdated one at that.

 

[chris719]

Does anyone else wonder if, in part, Google has been bullied into the current state of affairs by the carriers who push RCS behind the scenes?

Apple was the first company to get any kind of leverage over the carriers. Google is only recently free from some of the shackles. Pixels only sold on Verizon in the US, carriers holding back software updates, etc.

RCS is crap and I don't see what Google has to gain with it at this point. I don't think Apple is any more likely to implement RCS than something interoperable with Hangouts or whatever.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

Let's face it, you won't have one common standard to message with, and even though it actually exists in the form of xmpp/Jabber, no one wants to use it, but not because it's bad.

Conversations on Android can do voice, video, and of course, messages with any one. They adopted the same e2e security from Signal.

Really, for both Google and Apple, people pick what's in front of them. And that's imessage, and since they lock out SMS to any other app, people are going to use what's convenient for them.

And yes, they messed up big time with their strategy with messaging. Allo didn't need to exist. It wasn't even feature equivalent with Hangouts.

So, whatever. We'll be stuck with SMS forever, unless Apple relents. Sure, it's not multi device. But that's not a system limitation - anyone can sync that up if they want to do that.

 

[anonymouschicken]

Back in my online dating days, I did genuinely (more than once!) have women say "ew no thank you" when I texted them and a green bubble popped up on their screen. It's something that even non-tech people will notice and care about, so I'm not surprised to hear that it's causing stress for teens. I'd love to see the broader tech industry coalesce on a modern messaging standard that's device and carrier agnostic, but I'm not holding my breath, especially given Google's history.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet. If a woman is so shallow they'll reject someone because of the brand phone they have then they're not worth dating,

Maybe, just maybe, those women were saying ew to the content.

Lol, the content was typically something like "Hey, this is [name] from [app]." The "ew" was directed at the green bubble, not anything I actually said.

Haha... perhaps the "ew" was "ew... that guy from that app is messaging me"?

Nah - must be the green bubble

Haha, well, in both cases they had chosen to give me their phone number only moments before, and then specifically complained about the green bubble when I texted them directly

Uninstalling those apps after meeting my current girlfriend was such an incredible feeling. Online dating is a cesspool.

 

[Inaksa]

iMessage lock in is such a funny concept for me
Here in Italy m even iOS users tend to not use iMessage, or at least that’s my personal experience.

unless there is a market "dominance" of iOS devices, you are likely to run into people having Android. I think it is a critical mass issue, there is no country where iOS has a dominant marketshare except the US and only in certain demographics.

Here in Argentina (one country but the same applies to the rest of south and central america) people uses whatsapp FOR EVERYTHING, even for phone calls because most carriers decided not to count whatsapp's traffic against your data caps, making it quite popular.

 

[AndySocial]

Teens and college students said they dread the ostracism that comes with a green text.

Oh my God. Reading this makes me cranky and old.

I'm right there with you. If the color of your friend's text messages is upsetting you, maybe you should stop caring about stupid stuff.

 

[balthazarr]

Back in my online dating days, I did genuinely (more than once!) have women say "ew no thank you" when I texted them and a green bubble popped up on their screen. It's something that even non-tech people will notice and care about, so I'm not surprised to hear that it's causing stress for teens. I'd love to see the broader tech industry coalesce on a modern messaging standard that's device and carrier agnostic, but I'm not holding my breath, especially given Google's history.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet. If a woman is so shallow they'll reject someone because of the brand phone they have then they're not worth dating,

Maybe, just maybe, those women were saying ew to the content.

Lol, the content was typically something like "Hey, this is [name] from [app]." The "ew" was directed at the green bubble, not anything I actually said.

Haha... perhaps the "ew" was "ew... that guy from that app is messaging me"?

Nah - must be the green bubble

Haha, well, in both cases they had chosen to give me their phone number only moments before, and then specifically complained about the green bubble when I texted them directly

Uninstalling those apps after meeting my current girlfriend was such an incredible feeling. Online dating is a cesspool.

I can't upvote your last sentence enough.

And, I agree with panton41 - definitely dodged a bullet on that on... imagine thinking it, let alone sending it as a comment to your new potential partner.

 

[chris719]

Let's face it, you won't have one common standard to message with, and even though it actually exists in the form of xmpp/Jabber, no one wants to use it, but not because it's bad.

Conversations on Android can do voice, video, and of course, messages with any one. They adopted the same e2e security from Signal.

Really, for both Google and Apple, people pick what's in front of them. And that's imessage, and since they lock out SMS to any other app, people are going to use what's convenient for them.

And yes, they messed up big time with their strategy with messaging. Allo didn't need to exist. It wasn't even feature equivalent with Hangouts.

So, whatever. We'll be stuck with SMS forever, unless Apple relents. Sure, it's not multi device. But that's not a system limitation - anyone can sync that up if they want to do that.

The only way I could see interoperability happening is if the EU successfully mandated it or something.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

Teens and college students said they dread the ostracism that comes with a green text.

Oh my God. Reading this makes me cranky and old.

Children are cruel. If you didn't experience it in childhood you were either lucky or the bully.

We didn't have phones. We had pagers, and well, the only ones who had them were using them to sell drugs.

 

[Mr. Kite]

Back in my online dating days, I did genuinely (more than once!) have women say "ew no thank you" when I texted them and a green bubble popped up on their screen. It's something that even non-tech people will notice and care about, so I'm not surprised to hear that it's causing stress for teens. I'd love to see the broader tech industry coalesce on a modern messaging standard that's device and carrier agnostic, but I'm not holding my breath, especially given Google's history.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet. If a woman is so shallow they'll reject someone because of the brand phone they have then they're not worth dating,

Maybe, just maybe, those women were saying ew to the content.

Lol, the content was typically something like "Hey, this is [name] from [app]." The "ew" was directed at the green bubble, not anything I actually said.

So they told you no, and then they all patiently explained it’s not you, it’s your phone? I hate when that happens.

 

[JakJok]

iMessage lock in is such a funny concept for me
Here in Italy m even iOS users tend to not use iMessage, or at least that’s my personal experience.

unless there is a market "dominance" of iOS devices, you are likely to run into people having Android. I think it is a critical mass issue, there is no country where iOS has a dominant marketshare except the US and only in certain demographics.

Here in Argentina (one country but the same applies to the rest of south and central america) people uses whatsapp FOR EVERYTHING, even for phone calls because most carriers decided not to count whatsapp's traffic against your data caps, making it quite popular.

Japan might want a word with you.

 

[JakJok]

This article misses the mental health forest for the platform technology trees. Apple may not be "the bully", but they definitely are "the enabler".

A single update to iMessage could've stopped all of this bubble-ist/color-ist shit.

Provide one reason why Apple should enable Google.

Well, since you're clearly focused only on the money, I can't.

What does RCS provide me as a user other than major regressions over my current messaging choices? RCS is a huge boon to carriers. That's about it.

RCS is a garbage, jank protocol that only a carrier shill would love.

 

[chris719]

This article misses the mental health forest for the platform technology trees. Apple may not be "the bully", but they definitely are "the enabler".

A single update to iMessage could've stopped all of this bubble-ist/color-ist shit.

Do you really think making the green bubbles blue would make little Timmy's classmates not realize group chats don't work and he sends and receives potato-quality photos / video? They would find out he has an Android phone soon enough and bully him anyway.

I think the only thing it would do is make it take slightly longer to figure out if I have to use WhatsApp with a person.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

Personally, I'd probably find it very difficult to date someone not using iOS devices because I don't have a mobile number but do have a variety of iOS devices at hand.

I learned long ago to silence the voice in my head that yells out, "Learn to use your fucking software!" when I see an email that ends with, "sent from my iPhone." instead of a proper signature.

Actually, that notice is useful. It lets you know that the person isn't using a computer for that particular email and is most likely simply typing with an onscreen keyboard, meaning the text may not be as polished and edited as usual, may not contain as many links, may be shorter, etc. Additionally, they are likely away from their computer. A less specific "sent from my mobile" would not exclude devices with keyboards, so is less information-dense.

(While it's true that you can pair a physical keyboard with most iOS devices, that's not very common.)

Let's be honest here - it's for advertising. It's done on the ipad as well.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

We are constantly told that iOS is hugely outsold by Android. So either those devices are breaking faster and accounting for artificially high looking numbers, or there is no way iOS has a monopoly on anything.

You just need to figure out the context. iOS is close to monopoly in US and it is mostly irrelevant outside US.
Monopoly laws are not international. That's why Apple is under investigation in individual countries specifically in US.

Apple's iPhone market share in the U.S. as of last May was 52%, and was smaller than Android's until 2020. Where you're getting "monopoly" from is beyond me.

I've never seen Apple's ios marketshare ever smaller than Android's in the USA. That being said, they've never had an overwhelming share.

 

[The80sCalled]

Messaging should be interoperable, full stop. Cingular was desperate enough for a win that Apple got away with basically hijacking SMS and redirecting what was a standards-based service to their own servers. That's what made it so popular, it was the default and it seamlessly replaced SMS between iPhones. Google would have had to have carrier support to do the same and they wouldn't or couldn't get it.

Either Apple needs to open iMessage to Android users, or they need to support RCS. It's really not acceptable for them to do neither.

This is not an accurate history of these messaging services. The carriers had and have nothing to do with iMessage. Apple doesn't need a carrier's permission or co-operation. Google could have an equal system if they wanted.

Are you going back far enough in time? I can’t speak to iMessage’s history in particular, but I do know the operator relationship was different back in 2006.

Operator support was incredibly important in the days before the iPhone. I worked on windows mobile/phone back in the day, and there were features we shipped and features we could not ship (like unpaid custom ring tones) because of what the operators wanted.

iPhone changed all that because it was so insanely better than every other hand set that all the carriers started to bend over backwards to get it. That meant giving up a lot of control over what Apple and Google could or couldn’t do with their software.

 

[adamsc]

Does anyone else wonder if, in part, Google has been bullied into the current state of affairs by the carriers who push RCS behind the scenes?

“Bullied” doesn’t seem like quite the right term: if they’d just picked a messaging strategy and stuck to it, they’d have been able to do whatever they wanted. This feels more like desperation after having to write off multiple managerial botches and now the carriers are looking like the best chance for regaining market share after pushing everyone to Facebook and Apple.

 

[Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer]

JOKES ON THEM I WAS ONLY PRETENDING

Sure put a lot of effort into the role, champ.

 

[JakJok]

Come on Ron, this is silly. Whining or not Apple needs to start enabling RCS.

Why? So carriers can go back to charging premium add-on fees for texting? No thanks.

And if you think AT&T and Verizon wouldn't try that, you're hopelessly naive.

RCS is replacing SMS. Do the carriers charge for SMS? Not in my case. It seems like you are just sucking up to Apple.

Of course carriers charge for it. It's part of the cost of your "unlimited" talk & text plan. You may not pay per text, but you certainly are paying a fee to have SMS.

No, I'm not sucking up to Apple. RCS is garbage compared to a whole variety of other options that aren't Apple Messages.

 

[anonymouschicken]

Back in my online dating days, I did genuinely (more than once!) have women say "ew no thank you" when I texted them and a green bubble popped up on their screen. It's something that even non-tech people will notice and care about, so I'm not surprised to hear that it's causing stress for teens. I'd love to see the broader tech industry coalesce on a modern messaging standard that's device and carrier agnostic, but I'm not holding my breath, especially given Google's history.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet. If a woman is so shallow they'll reject someone because of the brand phone they have then they're not worth dating,

Maybe, just maybe, those women were saying ew to the content.

Lol, the content was typically something like "Hey, this is [name] from [app]." The "ew" was directed at the green bubble, not anything I actually said.

So they told you no, and then they all patiently explained it’s not you, it’s your phone? I hate when that happens.

I mean, they told me yes when they matched with me, had a conversation, then chose to give me their phone number. It was only when the first text went out and that green bubble popped up that suddenly they had a problem. As one lady eloquently put it "only poor people have Androids and I'm looking for money." At least she was honest with what she was looking for ¯\_(ツ)_/¯